Panda 2012+ twin air engine oil emulsification

[the bateman family]

hi. our sons panda 875 turbo twin air has been off the road for nearly 3 weeks due to the oil turning coffee coloured , I know this isn't normal. fiat are now fobbing us off with the phrase this is normal and can occur is some twin airs. the car is 6 months old and has covered less than 3500 miles.
my own twin air has 22500 on the clock and does not suffer the same issue.
has anyone else been told this blatant porky.

just for reference, I know my way round an engine as I was a factory rally team chase car drive/mechanic.

 

[Mercky]

Sounds odd, normally at that young age it's difficult to even see the oil on the dipstick. Is it running ok? How does the coolant look? Maybe it's remnants of some sort of running in oil they use in the factory, maybe get an oil and filter change and see how it goes from there.

 

[jrkitching]

hi. our sons panda 875 turbo twin air has been off the road for nearly 3 weeks due to the oil turning coffee coloured , I know this isn't normal. fiat are now fobbing us off with the phrase this is normal and can occur is some twin airs.

Sounds to me like you're getting coolant leaking into the oil. My first thought would be a failed head gasket.

Emulsified oil won't lubricate the engine properly. If it does turn out to be HG failure on a car as new as yours, I'd want both engine and turbo replaced - and if it happened in the first six months, I'd seriously consider rejecting the car.

 

[triumph7]

Sounds to me like you're getting coolant leaking into the oil. My first thought would be a failed head gasket.

Emulsified oil won't lubricate the engine properly. If it does turn out to be HG failure on a car as new as yours, I'd want both engine and turbo replaced - and if it happened in the first six months, I'd seriously consider rejecting the car.

Agree, sounds like h g...... If so, as a minimum I'd demand an entire replacement engine, everything..... And definitely not any form of repair.

 

[varesecrazy]

Agree, sounds like h g...... If so, as a minimum I'd demand an entire replacement engine, everything..... And definitely not any form of repair.

coolant mixing with oil ( "almost")certainly,

porous casting,

failed gasket ( HEAD or elsewhere),

Either way - not good on a "NEW" vehicle
ideally would need a replacement unit

other possibility is the vehicle is subjected to use whereby it never gets hot enough to evaporate combustion vapours,

MAYO in the top end is a common feature in such circumstances..,

Charlie

 

[the bateman family]

hello, thanks everyone.
they changed the head gasket last week, the same happened the next day we had it back. we took it back to them and now they say its ready again, fiat have told them its normal....but as a former chase car driver for a works rally team in the early 1990s I know oil and water should not mix in an engine. the situation is worthy of ridicule of the highest quality.
I have even suggested to the garage the possibility of porous head and block castings...they wont even consider this as a possibility.
on Monday the collect the car again from the garage.
water in the oil reduces the viscosity, this reduces the lubrication and with reduced lubrication , parts wear then and fail expensively. this is very worrying on a potentially high revving turbo charged engine.
this is my sons very first new car and he is utterly disappointed.

 

[cmosfxx]

You accepted a HG repair on a brand new car?

Why?

BTW I don't believe they actually replaced the HG. Only a quick oil change maybe.

ok. now time to replace the car or the engine.

 

[varesecrazy]

hello, thanks everyone.
they changed the head gasket last week, the same happened the next day we had it back. we took it back to them and now they say its ready again.

this is my sons very first new car and he is utterly disappointed.

Contact FIAT UK customer care, this is NOT normal,

when you say it happened again the following day- what did.??,

Dirty oil.?,
or is there a poor running symptom you've not mentioned

Frankly I think it's the Garage being unhelpful / clueless,
you can go to ANY FIAT approved workshop for warranty work

Charlie - Oxford

 

[PaulD]

This is an interesting thread.

My own observation on my twin air (2100 miles) is that the oil is a pale brown colour (pale coffee?) and there is evidence of water-oil emulsion around the thread and 'o'-ring seal on the dip stick. The oil on the bottom of the dip stick doesn't look as though it is emulsified.

I had thought this was evidence of condensation of crankcase vapour at the top of the engine and didn't represent any gasket failure. There's no evidence of water loss. I don't know what colour the oil should be but it has gradually turned a darker shade over the past 1500 miles. I've been driving diesels for the past 9 or 10 years and have nothing to compare the oil colour with.

Has anyone else made similar observations, or perhaps all the other twin airs show no evidence of emulsion or oil discolouration.

 

[the bateman family]

its possible that the garage are being unhelpful but they have always been ok on service before, I think fiat are stonewalling them and not informing them fully.
the emulsification problem occurred the very next day after having the HG changed. the coolant level has dropped on both on these occasions, sufficiently to create the amount of emulsification found. the first time, the engine internals (visible) were caked in this ugly mayo, the second time, it was starting to build up again.
the sad fact is, I look like I may have to involve trading standards, to get anything done.
this is our 8th car from PLATTS in Longton, stoke on trent and our 6th new one from them.
it is very disappointing.
my sons panda twin air is an automatic.
my own panda twin air 4x4 which was the first on the road in the Staffordshire moorlands, has never in its 2 year hard life, given me any trouble or doubts as to its reliability.

 

[JTD_Liam]

Seen as you've bought so many cars from the dealer, can't they just offer to order/find a new one for your son? Regardless of whether there's a fault (and it sounds like there is), if you've been that loyal to them I'd be expecting them to repay you a bit!

My Parents have a 500 TwinAir, 3 years old & 30,000 miles and we have no emulsified oil or coolant loss. As your coolant has also dropped, I'd say the garage have to be playing silly bug*ers to be saying there's nothing wrong.

Call Fiat on 00800 3428 0000 and log a case with them. If the car's on finance with FGA Capital it might be worth phoning them and asking what you need to do with a view to rejecting the car. Personally if my car had already had one head gasket and now looks to be faulty again at such a young age, I'd be wanting rid of it. No more fixes, just a new car.

 

[the bateman family]

hi,
we had the car back today....the power output is reduced and it stinks of antifreeze, when hot. seems to me as I drive it that the turbo is not boosting correctly but the smell of antifreeze is then overpowering. there is some small amount of emulsification starting to build again too.
after a short drive in the car, I took it straight back to the dealer and we have agreed to let them have fiat technical have a look at it on Monday, they are arranging a hire car for my son.
we will go along with this. however, I will reject the car completely if it is not sorted.
just for the record, we currently own 5 fiats. platts seem a bit stumped by the problem.

 

[Squadrone Rosso]

I checked the fluids on my Panda on Wednesday. At 900 miles, no oil or coolant usage & everything looks clean.

Apart from, that it, some white Mayo around the thread of the dipstick.

Never head that on my old TA 500.

 

[the bateman family]

hi all,
just an update.
fiat technical are investigating the problem but seem to be flummoxed by it.
the car is still at the dealers being tested and looked at.
had an interesting conversation with heath from fiat care, it didn't go anywhere.
creamy oil doesn't lubricate, it causes friction and wear.
apparently this is why cars have warranties so they can fix them and let you have them back, repaired.
or put another way, when the warranty expires ...bog off.
my own thoughts are....
is it a dodgy batch of block/head castings.....possibly porous. as other are getting mayo/creamy coffee coloured oil on new cars.