Technical Slow clutch return

[RedBravoTjet]

Hi All,

Just completed a flywheel, clutch and slave cylinder change on my bravo tjet sport. I also did the master cylinder a few months ago when the retaining clip failed and I noticed the cylinder had a slight leak onto the rod.

Everything seems to be functioning correctly with the exception of the clutch pedal not returning instantly. It’s only a second or two of a delay but it’s noticeable. I have bled everything several times to rule this out and it’s not my first time taking the gearbox/engine out.

I’m thinking maybe it’s related to the pedal return spring? When the master cylinder is detached the return spring for the pedal only does something when the pedal is more than half way up allready.

Hope somebody can help me resolve this.

Thanks in advance.

Dave

 

[The Panda Nut]

I think you are on it. The system sould just allow the pedal to come up. Panda has an internal return spring in the master cylinder. I have experienced a failure with similar symptoms. I cant remember the Bravo set up. But follow the linkage. Does it have a transfer bar across the cabin? Could anything be interfering with that. It may be just bad luck with the master cylinder suffering premature failure. Can you still get a warranty claim.

It may be release arm related. Can you get someone to press the pedal and see if its a delay on that by observing the arm?

I wish you well with this one

 

[RedBravoTjet]

I think you are on it. The system sould just allow the pedal to come up. Panda has an internal return spring in the master cylinder. I have experienced a failure with similar symptoms. I cant remember the Bravo set up. But follow the linkage. Does it have a transfer bar across the cabin? Could anything be interfering with that. It may be just bad luck with the master cylinder suffering premature failure. Can you still get a warranty claim.

It may be release arm related. Can you get someone to press the pedal and see if its a delay on that by observing the arm?

I wish you well with this one

Thanks for responding with some suggestions based on your experience. Obviously the pedal box is all interconnected but there is a spring assembly that seems to be responsible for returning the clutch pedal. As stated this doesn’t seem to do much until the pedal is nearly up. As the clutch is otherwise working correctly I’m reluctant to blame the hydraulics at this stage. Note the master cylinder is a genuine Fiat part and slave is LUK. I will take some pics and probably try to release the spring assembly to see/understand if it’s working as it should.

I was hoping somebody could confirm if the return spring should push the pedal back along all of its travel, with the master cylinder detached.

Unfortunately it seems this forum isn’t very busy these days but appreciate your thoughts.

 

[RedBravoTjet]

Calling all bravo owners!
Can anybody add any feedback or experience?

 

[RedBravoTjet]

Should have got a panda seems they are more active lol @thepandanut

 

[Mike1alike]

I am a Punto owner, hope to be helpful.
I'd say there is a very big possibility that the pipeline between master and slave cylinders (brake fluid inside) has gasket debris in it. When my master cylinder failed, with replacing it I did drained that pipe and it had lots of gasket figments. If you didn't drain yours, that could cause the momentarily clogging.

 

[RedBravoTjet]

S

I am a Punto owner, hope to be helpful.
I'd say there is a very big possibility that the pipeline between master and slave cylinders (brake fluid inside) has gasket debris in it. When my master cylinder failed, with replacing it I did drained that pipe and it had lots of gasket figments. If you didn't drain yours, that could cause the momentarily clogging.

thanks for responding and sharing your experience. I have bled the system several times and probably pushed a a litre of fluid through. I’m not sure there are any gaskets in the connections anyway, or are you talking about something internal. The slave was only changed because I had the box off. The master was changed because of the stupid retaining clip.

 

[RedBravoTjet]

tonight I dismantled the return spring assembly which appears to be intact. Back to the drawing board.

It’s got to be air in the hydraulics. I bled it the manual way, getting a helper to press the pedal and opening then closing bleed nipple. Then pull pedal up and repeat.

Anybody have a better method?

 

[The Panda Nut]

tonight I dismantled the return spring assembly which appears to be intact. Back to the drawing board.

It’s got to be air in the hydraulics. I bled it the manual way, getting a helper to press the pedal and opening then closing bleed nipple. Then pull pedal up and repeat.

Anybody have a better method?

Sounds like a good method to me.
The only real cause I can think of is the piston is sticking. Slave or master. A genuine Fiat Part will have 12 month warranty. Tell them (seller) whats happening and ask for a replacementbefore the 12 months is up. I had this problem with one of our Pandas after the master and clutch were both chnaged. I pulled the dust cover back on the slave and sprayed silicon lubricant inside the slave, on the back of the piston and replaced the dust cover. I just wiped the excess lube off after refitting the dust seal and had no repeat problems.

 

[RedBravoTjet]

Sounds like a good method to me.
The only real cause I can think of is the piston is sticking. Slave or master. A genuine Fiat Part will have 12 month warranty. Tell them (seller) whats happening and ask for a replacementbefore the 12 months is up. I had this problem with one of our Pandas after the master and clutch were both chnaged. I pulled the dust cover back on the slave and sprayed silicon lubricant inside the slave, on the back of the piston and replaced the dust cover. I just wiped the excess lube off after refitting the dust seal and had no repeat problems.

I think you may be onto something. I could call the part supplier they are a reputable business.
I don’t have a silicon spray but might have some from a sachet for building a caliper.
Are you suggesting that the seal is letting air in because it is not lubricated correctly?

 

[The Panda Nut]

I think you may be onto something. I could call the part supplier they are a reputable business.
I don’t have a silicon spray but might have some from a sachet for building a caliper.
Are you suggesting that the seal is letting air in because it is not lubricated correctly?

The stuff I use is WD40 silicon. Its a spray and looks similar to 3 in 1 for consistency. I have used it on our other Panda too, where the slave was begining to squeak and its seemingly cured that too. I wouldnt try grease as its not going to be easy to give a consistent coverage.

 

[Mike1alike]

Yes, I was talking about the master cylinder's internal gasket. I cut open one master cylinder once, to see what's wrong, cause I couldn't press the cluch, yet no drop of oil (fluid) on the carpet or anywhere. It turns that the master cylinder has two seals (pistons) on the rod. One at the top and one towards the end. The top one was shredded and when I was pushing the pedal, the fluid would go upwards in the tank. If the other one gets bad, then the fluid comes out on the carpet. And the shredded pieces was in that pipeline that goes to slave, at mine, at that time.
If you bled the system it should be good, although keep in mind that even if you took all that amount of fluid out, if you took it through the breather, chances are debris was left in the system. And if a little shredded piece of that gets caught inside the cylinder (master or slave) between seal and cylinder body that could cause that delay that's troubling you. I don't think that is what's happening, but is something you could look into, if anything else fails. What I did there and reccomend is to connect that pipe only to the master and take the fluid out to the pipe's end (the one that connects to slave) untill clean fluid comes out.
My advise is now, besides what The Panda Nut recommended, to grease another important spot. That place on the lever, where the slave piston (rod) sits. Take the slave down of it's screws (keeping it connected to fluid line) to have space to put plenty of grease there, cause it is needed. That's a place that left ungreased gets sticky and it can be the one causing your problem. Hope you solve it!

 

[RedBravoTjet]

Yes, I was talking about the master cylinder's internal gasket. I cut open one master cylinder once, to see what's wrong, cause I couldn't press the cluch, yet no drop of oil (fluid) on the carpet or anywhere. It turns that the master cylinder has two seals (pistons) on the rod. One at the top and one towards the end. The top one was shredded and when I was pushing the pedal, the fluid would go upwards in the tank. If the other one gets bad, then the fluid comes out on the carpet. And the shredded pieces was in that pipeline that goes to slave, at mine, at that time.
If you bled the system it should be good, although keep in mind that even if you took all that amount of fluid out, if you took it through the breather, chances are debris was left in the system. And if a little shredded piece of that gets caught inside the cylinder (master or slave) between seal and cylinder body that could cause that delay that's troubling you. I don't think that is what's happening, but is something you could look into, if anything else fails. What I did there and reccomend is to connect that pipe only to the master and take the fluid out to the pipe's end (the one that connects to slave) untill clean fluid comes out.
My advise is now, besides what The Panda Nut recommended, to grease another important spot. That place on the lever, where the slave piston (rod) sits. Take the slave down of it's screws (keeping it connected to fluid line) to have space to put plenty of grease there, cause it is needed. That's a place that left ungreased gets sticky and it can be the one causing your problem. Hope you solve it!

 

[RedBravoTjet]

Flushed the system good and proper all working as it should now. Thanks all for feedback