Technical Punto 188 no spark

[Euchoulis]

Hello to all the members of The forum.
2 days ago I went to start my car but it would crank and not start.
It had done it in the past but a little bit later it started working again. I open the hood and remove the air filter and I saw that there is no spark on the spark plugs not to any of them.
Another weird thing that is happening is going to turn the ignition on the radiator motor comes on at high speed.
I checked the composition sensor and it seems to be working fine and I'm about to check the crankshaft position sensor today..
Any ideas on how to proceed?

 

[bugsymike]

"

Hello to all the members of The forum.
2 days ago I went to start my car but it would crank and not start.
It had done it in the past but a little bit later it started working again. I open the hood and remove the air filter and I saw that there is no spark on the spark plugs not to any of them.
Another weird thing that is happening is going to turn the ignition on the radiator motor comes on at high speed.
I checked the composition sensor and it seems to be working fine and I'm about to check the crankshaft position sensor today..
Any ideas on how to proceed?

Don't know about the radiator fan , but usually if crankshaft position sensor fails the rev counter will not show any movement.
I have had a few CP sensors fail but usually when engine warm during a journey, not starting from cold.
Others on Forum may have more specific advice.

 

[Euchoulis]

probed both pins of the connector with the ignition on and I am getting 2.5 volts on both . That can't be right
Any help ?

 

[GrandePunto PL]

That can't be right

That's a bold statement. These can be normal readings when engine is off. Some low (single digit) voltages.
Sensor makes a signal during engine operation on top of that small initial bias.
What do you expect, "12 volts", because it's a car?
To test the sensor you check at least the resistance (about 1k or so - Google it).
But real-deal test is an oscilloscope waveform...
https://rotkee.com/en/waveform-library?brand=169

 

[Euchoulis]

That's a bold statement. These can be normal readings when engine is off. Some low (single digit) voltages.
Sensor makes a signal during engine operation on top of that small initial bias.
What do you expect, "12 volts", because it's a car?
To test the sensor you check at least the resistance (about 1k or so - Google it).
But real-deal test is an oscilloscope waveform...
https://rotkee.com/en/waveform-library?brand=169

I did test the sensor and it tests ok . It's a 2 wire sensor that means one should be ground and the other must be the signal that it's creating .so having no ground really could mean short to power or even faulty ecu .

 

[Euchoulis]

Does anyone have the wiring diagram for this car ?

 

[bugsymike]

I did test the sensor and it tests ok . It's a 2 wire sensor that means one should be ground and the other must be the signal that it's creating .so having no ground really could mean short to power or even faulty ecu .

Generally if the rev counter is working then the crank sensor is giving a signal to it, you should see movement when cranking the engine.

 

[Euchoulis]

Generally if the rev counter is working then the crank sensor is giving a signal to it, you should see movement when cranking the engine.

It's moving the rev counter but no spark on any of the coils

 

[bugsymike]

It's moving the rev counter but no spark on any of the coils

So probably not the crank sensor.
Any chance of a code read?

 

[Euchoulis]

With the ignition both on and off I get 3.5 volts on the first and the third pin of the ignition coils. Is that right ?

 

[bugsymike]

With the ignition both on and off I get 3.5 volts on the first and the third pin of the ignition coils. Is that right ?

Sorry no idea, others on Forum will have more specific knowledge.
However if you take the numbers and manufacturer details from coil pack you may find more online generally.
Is ther fuel getting to the plugs but no spark , or is that off as well?
I assume no immobiliser issues? Have you tried a spare key etc.?
A code read would help.

 

[Mike1alike]

It does sound like an immobilizer problem. Isn't the immo light on on the dashboard, the red padlock? A code read would indeed help!
What's the voltage on battery? Low voltage usually triggers immo error.

 

[Euchoulis]

It does sound like an immobilizer problem. Isn't the immo light on on the dashboard, the red padlock? A code read would indeed help!
What's the voltage on battery? Low voltage usually triggers immo error.

No immobilizer issue . It lights up and then stays off a few seconds after .
The voltage is 12.7 with ignition on and 11.1 when cranking .
I don't think it can be the issue . You think it's too low ?

 

[Mike1alike]

No, it is not too low. No need to measure it with ignition on, off is fine.
Is the fuel pump working? Do you hear it humming when you put the ignition on? Is fuel coming to injectors? Do you have pressure in the fuel rail?
Can you read the error codes stored?

 

[Euchoulis]

No, it is not too low. No need to measure it with ignition on, off is fine.
Is the fuel pump working? Do you hear it humming when you put the ignition on? Is fuel coming to injectors? Do you have pressure in the fuel rail?
Can you read the error codes stored?

Yes . I have fuel coming but I think the injectors are not injecting fuel to the cylinders . There is pressure in the fuel rail and tomorrow will have a friend come with a scanner to check if there are any faults
Any ideas ?

 

[Euchoulis]

After resetting and cranking the scanner showed no faults .
Any ideas guys ? I am almost a week without a car

 

[Mike1alike]

You can test the spark plugs, coil packs and injectors with the scanner, if your friend can let you use it for a bit. You have the commands in the menu. It's better to take out the plugs, place them safely connected to coils and put a cabel to connect to (-) with the battery. And with the scanner you can 'execute' the command. Or even without the scanner, with the plugs lined up safely and connected, you can turn the ignition on (or have someone turn it) and watch if you get sparks on the plugs.
You can do the same with the injectors, if you take them out of the intake manifold. Have them connected on he injection rail and place a cardboard in front of them, to not splash petrol around. Then turn the ignition on (this time with plugs away and cables secured to not have a short circuit) and see if the injectors splash fuel.

Have a look at the plugs first, you should start with that. By the numbers of times you've tried to start the engine and failed, they should be wet with petrol. But my guess is that petrol does not go in the engine for some reason, probably due to crankshaft sensor. But start with checking the plugs and see what goes around.
With the scanner, did you try reading the RPM while cranking?

 

[Mike1alike]

Before resetting what were the error codes?
Try making a video when you crank and it doesn't start, if you can.

 

[Euchoulis]

Finally fixed .
It was a single wire just a tiny little thing that was shorting to positive on a coil to ground .
Because it was so small an barely touching it did not blow the F22 fuse but it messed up the signals to the ecu .
Can you guys tell me where I can get sae 3pin connectors so I can make it a solid fix ?
Thanks to all of you for the help