power cap

[j0nny]

right i got a free power cap today, just sayed to a mate that i was going to get one for the active sub in the car and he took me out to his car and just gave me one. but having a look at it im curious, how does it work? lol
i know that sounds like a stupid question but theres just a + and - feed, so how does it wrk cheers

 

[fireuno]

its basically a capacitor. fills up with electricity and when you get a heavy bass beat, (when you amp needs more power for your subs) it feeds it to your amp, keeping you sound crisp and clean. kinda like a small battery for your amp. i think you are s'posed to have a powercap for every 1000 watts...but not sure on that bit.
az

 

[steve1219]

Hope it helps

Steve

 

[volxstu]

Thats acttually 1 Farad to every 40watts RMS so there pretty useless really. I have one because they make good voltmeters and look good aswell but that is about the extent of there usefullness you will never see them on a real system because its better to do the battery and alternator to actually feed the high power supply.

 

[fireuno]

um i dont think its quite that low, or id need a 4 farad cap for my 4 channel head unit...and they tend not to come higher than 2 farad, (obviously there are exceptions, like the Audiobahn [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ACAP651N, which is 12 farad) and they are far from useless...here are two paragraphs from two diferent high end audio company sites:-[/FONT]
1) Vented Innovative Bass Encolsues (VIBE) said "A must for any high performance subwoofer system.

The VIBE 1.5 farad power capacitor is a must for any high performance audio system. VIBE¹s 1.5 farad power capacitor bridges the gap between the vehicles battery and the amplifiers ensuring rapid smooth current flow resulting in louder tighter bass and clean crisp midrange and treble. ​

The built in digital voltage display constantly and accurately displays the systems DC voltage. An all new VIBE power distribution block is built into the top of the capacitor to allow easy wiring into the system. amplifiers may be wired directly to the capacitors distrubution block.

• New 1.5 farad capacitor has 50% more capacitance than the previous model
• New power distribution block allows 2 x 4 AWG negative inputs
• 2 x 4 AWG positive inputs and 2 x 8 AWG positive inputs

• Accurate digital voltage display with auto turn on/off
• Lowest ESR of any capacitor on the market today
• Can improve low end bass response in car audio systems.
  [*]Ideal for large bass systems that typically struggle with poor current delivery from the battery."

2) Audiobahn said "Though amplifiers already have internal capacitors, their size and capacity is limited to keep the amplifier more compact. External capacitors help to deliver power when the audio system places severe demands on the electrical system of the automobile. They are designed to store power to be made available to the amplifier under extreme current draw. Aluminum capacitors have very fast charge/discharge times. Carbon cell capacitors have a higher capacity in a smaller design. The ACAP651N combines both of these technologies to give you higher capacity in a smaller form without losing charging/discharging times. Audiobahn also offers a traditional aluminum 1-farad capacitor with a choice of standard connection terminals or distribution blocks."

Hope this helps you Jonny!
az

 

[j0nny]

cheers that's very helpful, I hopefuly will be wiring this in at the weekend so I just wana make sure. The live wire connects 2 the battery terminal and is fused close to this connection, it then connects to the power cap and then from the power cap to the amp? Sorta daisychaining it. Both the amp and the power cap have their own earth and the remote feed is direct from the head unit to the amp?
sry if this seems lik a stupid question but with the introduction of a power cap to a system does this help improve batery life or does it put more strain on it.

 

[Luke M]

um i dont think its quite that low, or id need a 4 farad cap for my 4 channel head unit...and they tend not to come higher than 2 farad, (obviously there are exceptions, like the Audiobahn [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ACAP651N, which is 12 farad) and they are far from useless...here are two paragraphs from two diferent high end audio company sites:-[/FONT]
1) Vented Innovative Bass Encolsues (VIBE) said "A must for any high performance subwoofer system.

The VIBE 1.5 farad power capacitor is a must for any high performance audio system. VIBE¹s 1.5 farad power capacitor bridges the gap between the vehicles battery and the amplifiers ensuring rapid smooth current flow resulting in louder tighter bass and clean crisp midrange and treble. ​

The built in digital voltage display constantly and accurately displays the systems DC voltage. An all new VIBE power distribution block is built into the top of the capacitor to allow easy wiring into the system. amplifiers may be wired directly to the capacitors distrubution block.

• New 1.5 farad capacitor has 50% more capacitance than the previous model
• New power distribution block allows 2 x 4 AWG negative inputs
• 2 x 4 AWG positive inputs and 2 x 8 AWG positive inputs

• Accurate digital voltage display with auto turn on/off
• Lowest ESR of any capacitor on the market today
• Can improve low end bass response in car audio systems.
  [*]Ideal for large bass systems that typically struggle with poor current delivery from the battery."

2) Audiobahn said "Though amplifiers already have internal capacitors, their size and capacity is limited to keep the amplifier more compact. External capacitors help to deliver power when the audio system places severe demands on the electrical system of the automobile. They are designed to store power to be made available to the amplifier under extreme current draw. Aluminum capacitors have very fast charge/discharge times. Carbon cell capacitors have a higher capacity in a smaller design. The ACAP651N combines both of these technologies to give you higher capacity in a smaller form without losing charging/discharging times. Audiobahn also offers a traditional aluminum 1-farad capacitor with a choice of standard connection terminals or distribution blocks."

Hope this helps you Jonny!
az

remember, your taking quotes off companies websites where they are trying to sell you these products. there not going to tell you the full honest truth.

cheers that's very helpful, I hopefuly will be wiring this in at the weekend so I just wana make sure. The live wire connects 2 the battery terminal and is fused close to this connection, it then connects to the power cap and then from the power cap to the amp? Sorta daisychaining it. Both the amp and the power cap have their own earth and the remote feed is direct from the head unit to the amp?
sry if this seems lik a stupid question but with the introduction of a power cap to a system does this help improve batery life or does it put more strain on it.

take your current live off the amp and put onto the + of the cap. then another lead from the + of the cap to the amp +. then an Earth lead from the -ve of the cap to the chassis. use the same earth point as your amp.

 

[chaos]

um i dont think its quite that low, or id need a 4 farad cap for my 4 channel head unit...and they tend not to come higher than 2 farad, (obviously there are exceptions, like the Audiobahn [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ACAP651N, which is 12 farad) and they are far from useless...here are two paragraphs from two diferent high end audio company sites:-[/FONT]
1) Vented Innovative Bass Encolsues (VIBE) said "A must for any high performance subwoofer system.

The VIBE 1.5 farad power capacitor is a must for any high performance audio system. VIBE¹s 1.5 farad power capacitor bridges the gap between the vehicles battery and the amplifiers ensuring rapid smooth current flow resulting in louder tighter bass and clean crisp midrange and treble. ​

The built in digital voltage display constantly and accurately displays the systems DC voltage. An all new VIBE power distribution block is built into the top of the capacitor to allow easy wiring into the system. amplifiers may be wired directly to the capacitors distrubution block.

• New 1.5 farad capacitor has 50% more capacitance than the previous model
• New power distribution block allows 2 x 4 AWG negative inputs
• 2 x 4 AWG positive inputs and 2 x 8 AWG positive inputs

• Accurate digital voltage display with auto turn on/off
• Lowest ESR of any capacitor on the market today
• Can improve low end bass response in car audio systems.
  [*]Ideal for large bass systems that typically struggle with poor current delivery from the battery."

2) Audiobahn said "Though amplifiers already have internal capacitors, their size and capacity is limited to keep the amplifier more compact. External capacitors help to deliver power when the audio system places severe demands on the electrical system of the automobile. They are designed to store power to be made available to the amplifier under extreme current draw. Aluminum capacitors have very fast charge/discharge times. Carbon cell capacitors have a higher capacity in a smaller design. The ACAP651N combines both of these technologies to give you higher capacity in a smaller form without losing charging/discharging times. Audiobahn also offers a traditional aluminum 1-farad capacitor with a choice of standard connection terminals or distribution blocks."

Hope this helps you Jonny!
az

I'd love to see a HU which puts out 160W RMS To my knowledge, they do not exist.

Capacitors are not batteries. They do not provide extra power overall - they need the 'weak' battery to charge from.

 

[fireuno]

yeah you are right mog, but i think there will be some truth to what they say they do, im not saying that they are the be all and end all, so to speak, nor are they a must have for your audio equip.
Nope 160 watt HUs dont exist...but a 4 channel, 40 watt rms per channel does. 1 farad per channel, and i didnt say they are batteries, i said they are like batteries. and incidenlty, batteries need to charge also, do they not?
A capacitor stores electric energy when you disconnect it from its charging circuit, so it can be used like a temporary battery Capacitors are used in electronic devices to maintain power supply while batteries are being changed. (This prevents loss of information in volatile memory.)
az

 

[chaos]

Nope 160 watt HUs dont exist...but a 4 channel, 40 watt rms per channel does.

OK, I'll rephrase it - find me a 4 x 40W RMS HU

1 farad per channel, and i didnt say they are batteries, i said they are like batteries. and incidenlty, batteries need to charge also, do they not?
A capacitor stores electric energy when you disconnect it from its charging circuit, so it can be used like a temporary battery Capacitors are used in electronic devices to maintain power supply while batteries are being changed. (This prevents loss of information in volatile memory.)
az

Reread what VIBE and Audiobahn have written

Ideal for large bass systems that typically struggle with poor current delivery from the battery

External capacitors help to deliver power when the audio system places severe demands on the electrical system of the automobile

These capacitors require a source to charge from, namely the weak battery. However, if you have 'poor current delivery' then your battery is not up to scratch in the first place. You cannot put more energy into the system without improving the battery (assuming of course, you're comparing fully charged batteries of different specifications).

Look at the world's loudest cars (therefore require lots of power) and count the number which have power capacitors. You'll find that there'll be very few, if at all.

 

[fireuno]

well i imagine a loud car to be something like 12 amps (totaling 2640 watts) powering 26 component speakers, 12 mono block amps (totaling 6000 watts) powering 12 15 inch subs. are you saying that a set up like that wont need any power caps? if so could you kindly explain exactly what a capacitor is for me? also the quotes you made clearly argue my point of "a capacitor is like a battery" i didnt say they are the same thing.
thanks az

 

[crazydave]

OK, I'll rephrase it - find me a 4 x 40W RMS HU

I like a challenge mr Dai hehehe, erm i dunno of one that is 40W RMS but i know one just 50W not the same though


P.S. I think the chip pan is on fire............QUICK Go get Sam

 

[chaos]

well i imagine a loud car to be something like 12 amps (totaling 2640 watts) powering 26 component speakers, 12 mono block amps (totaling 6000 watts) powering 12 15 inch subs. are you saying that a set up like that wont need any power caps?

Yeah, you can run 9K WRMS without seeing a single power cap.

And actually a lot of loud cars get there using 1 or 2 subs and definately not 26 sets of components.

if so could you kindly explain exactly what a capacitor is for me? also the quotes you made clearly argue my point of "a capacitor is like a battery" i didnt say they are the same thing.
thanks az

A capacitor is not the power source - it does act like a battery, but the main difference is that the capacitor is charged by a source within the circuit, i.e. the battery. From that POV, a capacitor is different from a battery. The point I'm making is that if you don't have a powerful enough battery to comfortably handle the demands of the amp(s) then how will a capacitor help when all it effectively does is leech power from a 'deficient' battery?

P.S. I think the chip pan is on fire............QUICK Go get Sam

Nah, the chip pan isn't on fire - they've bought a new fryer

 

[fireuno]

then why does the car with that set up have 6 capacitors? again you just agreed with me in an argumentative manor. ill repeat it one more time for you "a capacitor is like a battery, NOT THE SAME AS!" what happens when you get a depleted battery? you put it in a charging circuit, what does a capacitor continually do? charges and discharges. (likeness 1) when charged you can take both battery and capacitor out of the circuit, and they will hold the charge. (likeness 2) when put back into a complete circuit, they will both discharge. (likeness 3). now this is where they start to differ, a battery is designed to discharge over a longer period of time, where as a capacitor is pretty much instantaneous. thats why photographers use big power-packs (containing a lot of very large capacitors.) for the external flashes. they charge them, like a battery, then like a battery they use them to power the flashes, they are not the same as batteries. otherwise the flashes wouldnt flash.

heres another scource of info on capacitors:- http://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=58168.
thanks
az

 

[volxstu]

Right a capacitor is a little like the battery it takes power that would normally be dicipated elseware and gives it to the sound system but the point is it is no where near as efficient as many batteries a good alternator and proper wiring they are just another bit of bling in the boot they probably dont do any harm but they certainly dont give you any niticeable bass definition.:tosser:

 

[chaos]

ill repeat it one more time for you "a capacitor is like a battery, NOT THE SAME AS!"

And if you reread my post, you'll find that I agreed with you.

Right a capacitor is a little like the battery it takes power that would normally be dicipated elseware and gives it to the sound system but the point is it is no where near as efficient as many batteries a good alternator and proper wiring they are just another bit of bling in the boot they probably dont do any harm but they certainly dont give you any niticeable bass definition.

Nail, head, hit. What I was trying to say

 

[hodgy]

Hi i reacently fitted a boot install to my cinq i hav 2 10 inch jbl 1000s and a 600watt legacy amp i also fitted a power cap as i read somwhere that they help to stop your head lights dimming every time the bass hits with my car this isnt the case if the engine is just tiking over and the voume loud ish but not to loud its like the front of my car is having a rave party. as for sound i dont hear any diference with or with out the cap altho it does help my puny little battery to power the amp as the lights on the amp dont dimm as much with it fitted

 

[volxstu]

There you go Hodgy just explained it all his power cap capacitates enough power to power the LED on his amp anything more than that is just a little added bonus.

 

[crazydave]

Nah, the chip pan isn't on fire - they've bought a new fryer

How could you end it like that

 

[j0nny]

well I'm only after finishing intalling the system with the power cap in, did I notice a diference? I would have to say yea, with fiats battery and a petrol alternator along with loadsa ice installed in conjunction with the head unit the system could of done with a wee bit more power. The power cap seems to help the bass along in providing a constant decent quality bass; looks well too, lol. The voltometer can come in handy to watch the battery and alternator and see how efficent it is working. Cheers for all the help on the installation of the power cap