Technical P0401, 1.9JTD - EGR valve again

[tiaf]

My 2008 1.9JTD shows P0401 (insufficient EGR flow) with engine management fault light.
I've cleaned the EGR valve twice, cleared the fault, all seems fine.
Car seems to run ok, but just when I think I've sorted it, the light comes back on, usually well intoi the journey, together with a stored code P0401.

I've connected multiecuscan, it seems to show an on/off signal to the valve (as throttle varies) with the valve opening in response.

I don't want to bypass the valve.

Anyone got any ideas - should I bite the bullet and change the valve (about £180!)?

And if I decide to take it to a garage should I take it to a main dealer? Or a diesel specialist?

Any help greatfully appreciated, thanks.

 

[momoe]

Are you sure someone hasn't blanked the EGR?

 

[tiaf]

EGR valve hasn't been blocked off!

 

[momoe]

Not familiar with the M-Jet engine, there is another level of error reporting which the JTD (8v) doesn't have.

Check the pipework from the exhaust to the EGR, any splits or cracks here could cause the issue, however there must be a flow/pressure sensor which is triggering the fault.
Try searching on Punto/Grande Punto or even the Alfa-Romea forums as the M-Jet engine is comparatively rare on Multi's.

 

[FiatFleetFamily]

My 2008 1.9JTD shows P0401 (insufficient EGR flow) with engine management fault light.
I've cleaned the EGR valve twice, cleared the fault, all seems fine.
Car seems to run ok, but just when I think I've sorted it, the light comes back on, usually well intoi the journey, together with a stored code P0401.

I've connected multiecuscan, it seems to show an on/off signal to the valve (as throttle varies) with the valve opening in response.

I don't want to bypass the valve.

Anyone got any ideas - should I bite the bullet and change the valve (about £180!)?

And if I decide to take it to a garage should I take it to a main dealer? Or a diesel specialist?

Any help greatfully appreciated, thanks.

You have the same vintage on Multipla with the multijet engine as me. Not many of us are around. The Mjet signals are a little different than the JTD as the DPF has its part to play.

In the alfaowner forum, the solenoid coil of the Mjet EGR has been known to cause problems as you describe, I had a simular problem with my Stilo Multiwagon Mjet engine a while back.

I would sincerley suggest you change the EGR valve, but also check for soot build up in the 2 flexi pipes and get a chop stick and see if you can extract any gunge in the manifold that the EGR bolts to, I always got a load out on the Stilo Mjet engine, as this will restrict the flow.

Do not under any circumstances spend £180 on a EGR!

Link below of Ebay seller who sells genuine Vauxhall EGR's for the JTD and Mjet, which are the same as the CDTi vauxhall engines. I have bought from him in the past and never had a problem, I have asked him to include the Multipla in his listing, no doubt for got to do it. The price inc the gaskets is a bargain!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230931631255?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Good luck and nice to see another late plate Multipla Mjet forum user post.

 

[tiaf]

FFF, thanks very much for your wise words!
Being a suspicious type, I'm trying to find confirmation that the Vauxhall part 55215032 is the same valve as Fiat 55204235 which is on my car - but they certainly look the same. I've seen a document with equivalent part numbers, but can't find it at the moment.

I changed the MAP sensor last week and was staggered by the amount of 'gunge' on it, so my next step was to do as you suggest and check the holes in the manifold. The pipes to/from the EGR were sooty, but I wouldn't have thought sooty enough to restrict flow.

PS also black JTD on the Wirral!

 

[Davren]

Not sure if it's the same for the Multipla, but the only difference between the Vauxhall EGR valve in the listing and the Stilo one, is that the electrical connector is 90º adrift. Not a problem for the Stilo, because the wiring connector is just long enough to reach the new position.
.

 

[FiatFleetFamily]

Not sure if it's the same for the Multipla, but the only difference between the Vauxhall EGR valve in the listing and the Stilo one, is that the electrical connector is 90º adrift. Not a problem for the Stilo, because the wiring connector is just long enough to reach the new position.
.

Plenty of slack in the cable. Not a problem. Just checked.

 

[FiatFleetFamily]

.

I changed the MAP sensor last week and was staggered by the amount of 'gunge' on it, so my next step was to do as you suggest and check the holes in the manifold. The pipes to/from the EGR were sooty, but I wouldn't have thought sooty enough to restrict flow.

PS also black JTD on the Wirral!

Where is the MAP sensor, I have not cleaned that before.??

Are you the Bebington Black Multipla? I am the New Brighton Black one.

 

[tiaf]

The MAP sensor, unless I've got my terminology wrong, is the pressure sensor which is plugged in to the manifold near to the egr valve; mine was really gunged up, cleaned it but replaced it in the end. Held in by one allen bolt, pulls out but feels fairly tight due rubber o-ring/seal. Thinking logically, since that was gunged up, it's highly likely that the manifold by the egr valve is bunged up too, restricting flow.

We're in Heswall, will keep an eye out. This is Multipla number 3 for us, had one since 2000, but this is the first one to have engine management issues.

 

[fiat man colin]

OK just change the EGR valve, cleaning it only works temporarily. I worked at Chapelhouse for a while and we used to fit Saab 93 120hp EGR's coz they were the same apart from the connection is turned through 90 degree's but more importantly they are half the price of the Fiat equivalent i fitted one to my 2007 multijet and problem was sorted for good

 

[Davren]

OK just change the EGR valve, cleaning it only works temporarily.

Hi, Welcome to the FF.

Why does cleaning it only work temporarily? Yes it will get dirty again, but then so will a new one.
.

 

[fiat man colin]

Not completley sure but we did it Doblo's Idea's Stilo's Punto's ETC and it normaly only lasts a short while and it just aint worth the buggering about especialy on something like an Idea with the hassle to get it on and off.

 

[FiatFleetFamily]

The MAP sensor, unless I've got my terminology wrong, is the pressure sensor which is plugged in to the manifold near to the egr valve; mine was really gunged up, cleaned it but replaced it in the end. Held in by one allen bolt, pulls out but feels fairly tight due rubber o-ring/seal. Thinking logically, since that was gunged up, it's highly likely that the manifold by the egr valve is bunged up too, restricting flow.

We're in Heswall, will keep an eye out. This is Multipla number 3 for us, had one since 2000, but this is the first one to have engine management issues.

Thanks for the tip, I will have a look when I mext refill the screenwash.

Who are you using for work on your Multipla that you cannot do yourself?

I am using Ray's Fiat Motocare in Wallasey, for stuff I cannot do like the Cambelt, Aux Belt, tensioners and water pump that he changed last year in November. He's a bit a real Fiat nut, well into his X1/9's and Strada's and old Croma's. He is based on the dock road at the Ivesco business park, 500 metres towards the four bridges from the Tate & Lyle roundabout. His garage is around the corner from Direct Tyres.

 

[ukjoe]

Like many my Multipla 1.9JTD (88kW 120HP) has just started throwing up a P0401 EGR valve- insufficient flow detected. I appreciate that the problem may NOT be in the valve and that physically cleaning it would be best. However I have had a look and access is poor and I can easily believe the comments I have seen, and heard, that it is hell to get it off, not least because other bits also need to be moved and the bolts may have seized (car is at least 14 years old and not sure if EGR valve has ever been cleaned).
I wondered about trying an EGR spray valve but have seen very negative comments about them, especially from those who say they are much more experienced than I am (almost everyone is more experienced but I am concentrating on the mechanics etc), and suggesting that physical cleaning is ONLY way to go.
I had a look at the Wynn's cleaner at https://www.wynns.uk.com/professional/egr-valve-what-is-it-and-why-should-it-be-cleaned/ which says:
"How to clean the EGR valve depending on its location?
When the EGR valve is close to the exhaust, a tank treatment is recommended.
When it is located close to or inside the intake system, an intake cleaner should be chosen.
When located between the exhaust and the intake, neither fuel treatments nor intake cleaners are effective, so the EGR valve must be removed and cleaned manually."
which seems to at least acknowledge that a spray cleaner is not correct for all cars.
I asked Wynn for their advice on my Multipla and they said:
"You can easily remove the intake pipe to the throttle body and even the throttle body and from there the EGR valve should be quite easy to remove or even to carry out an on car clean with our solution in spray.
If an on car clean is to be performed, follow closely the instructions as the engine revs may raise uncontrollably up during the clean."

and

"I think you can remove the throttle body and apply the spray directly from there to the EGR (I did it once). If you manage to reach the EGR with the spray through the throttle body housing, then go with the spray."

Any thoughts? Advice appreciated. Has anyone found the EGR valve easy to remove? Any tips?
Thanks a lot,

 

[Davren]

Instructions attached if you go down the 'clean it' route.
.

 

[ukjoe]

That is great. Thanks a lot. The only question is how was the access on the Alfa? It looks pretty tight on my Multipla and just wondering if you had trouble accessing bolts etc....
Thanks,