Technical Noisy front suspension questions

[WilliamH]

Hi, Thanks for this great forum. I'm a newbie and hoping you can offer me some advice and guidance

I've read several threads about noisy front suspension as this is a problem affecting our Fiat 500 Lounge. It's an 09 plate and we've had it from new - approx 55k miles. I've also read the front shock absorber replacement guide....

But so far, none of the threads have answered a burning question I have !

Q1
What I've never understood is why the top of the shock absorber seems to be free to move around in the oval hole of the body shell. I always though the top of a shock absorber should be securely located. The way it can move must contribute to noise on uneven surfaces, mustn't it?

See picture.

I know Fiat came in for some stick with the early 500's and presumably they made some improvements.

Q2
Is there anything I can do to upgrade to a newer/ better factory spec?

As one of the dampers has started to leak I plan to replace the dampers, top mounts, and bump stops. I may do the drop links too, if it's obvious they are past their best.

Q3
What else should I replace while I'm about it?

Q4
Finally, I need to buy the key tool to stop the spindle rotating as I do up the nuts. Does anyone have the details of what I need?

Sorry for so many questions for my first post, but I'm hopeful you've got all the answers!

Many thanks

 

[chris3234]

Hi, Thanks for this great forum. I'm a newbie and hoping you can offer me some advice and guidance

I've read several threads about noisy front suspension as this is a problem affecting our Fiat 500 Lounge. It's an 09 plate and we've had it from new - approx 55k miles. I've also read the front shock absorber replacement guide....

But so far, none of the threads have answered a burning question I have !

Q1
What I've never understood is why the top of the shock absorber seems to be free to move around in the oval hole of the body shell. I always though the top of a shock absorber should be securely located. The way it can move must contribute to noise on uneven surfaces, mustn't it?

See picture.

I know Fiat came in for some stick with the early 500's and presumably they made some improvements.

Q2
Is there anything I can do to upgrade to a newer/ better factory spec?

As one of the dampers has started to leak I plan to replace the dampers, top mounts, and bump stops. I may do the drop links too, if it's obvious they are past their best.

Q3
What else should I replace while I'm about it?

Q4
Finally, I need to buy the key tool to stop the spindle rotating as I do up the nuts. Does anyone have the details of what I need?

Sorry for so many questions for my first post, but I'm hopeful you've got all the answers!

Many thanks

Looking at. The ammout of debris there I suggest you removed the clear the drains out in the scuttle pannel area below the windscreen as they will soon be blocked if they sent allready


If you don't you can end up with water comming into the car through the cabin air intake

 

[John202020]

Keeping the car,,,,?
Replace EVERYTHING, lower control arms, shocks, springs, bump stops, top bearing, top "mounting cup engine bay side" if you want top spring cup though it can usually be cleaned up, drop links will get destroyed removing them, consider new track rod ends.

Rubber top mount stops the top of the strut moving. Shop around on Ebay all parts can be bought cheaply.

If you've read my guide you can see how I stopped the central spindle moving to tighten
https://www.fiatforum.com/500-guides/440891-front-shock-absorber-replacement.html

 

[WilliamH]

Thanks. Yes, the debris seems to build up quickly where we live. Will do what you suggest.

 

[WilliamH]

And John202020 - again I can understand the wisdom of your advice. Thanks for the link, too - much appreciated.

 

[chris3234]

Looking at. The ammout of debris there I suggest you removed the clear the drains out in the scuttle pannel area below the windscreen as they will soon be blocked if they sent allready


If you don't you can end up with water comming into the car through the cabin air intake

Not to self touchscreen typing is messy lol

 

[portland_bill]

Despite being 'free', the top mounts do not make noise, except when they go light over a yump.
Looking at the rust on the top thread, that'll be a real pain to remove. Stick some plus-gas on it asap, then redo daily for a few days. You'll then need to get a wire brush into those threads, thoroughly, before attempting to remove the top nut. That'll be difficult, using a few dozen dremel ones might work.
Some colourful language will be compulsory.
500s suffer from these rusting, I think there was a cover avialable, may need to search a few threads for that. A useful addition once the job is done.

Most likely cause of noise is the drop links. They can feel good, but still make noise.
Bottom arms can be a little bit fiddly to get in, but otherwise nothing there too scary.

As said, replace it all, it'll feel like a new car. Did the Panda last year, still feels lovely.

 

[portland_bill]

Despite being 'free', the top mounts do not make noise, except when they go light over a yump.
Looking at the rust on the top thread, that'll be a real pain to remove. Stick some plus-gas on it asap, then redo daily for a few days. You'll then need to get a wire brush into those threads, thoroughly, before attempting to remove the top nut. That'll be difficult, using a few dozen dremel ones might work.
Some colourful language will be compulsory.
500s suffer from these rusting, I think there was a cover avialable, may need to search a few threads for that. A useful addition once the job is done.

Most likely cause of noise is the drop links. They can feel good, but still make noise.
Bottom arms can be a little bit fiddly to get in, but otherwise nothing there too scary.

As said, replace it all, it'll feel like a new car. Did the Panda last year, still feels lovely.

 

[B7TMW]

Keeping the car,,,,?
Replace EVERYTHING, lower control arms, shocks, springs, bump stops, top bearing, top "mounting cup engine bay side" if you want top spring cup though it can usually be cleaned up, drop links will get destroyed removing them, consider new track rod ends.

Rubber top mount stops the top of the strut moving. Shop around on Ebay all parts can be bought cheaply.

If you've read my guide you can see how I stopped the central spindle moving to tighten
https://www.fiatforum.com/500-guides/440891-front-shock-absorber-replacement.html

^^^^^^ This. The bottom arms wear badly at the rear inner bush. This was the main source of our noises on our 2008 1.2 Lounge but we also had a weeping front strut.

I only did the struts and arms first time round and have since had to strip it again in less than 18 months to do the top mounts!

If you are keeping it? Do the lot and do it once.

We fitted Boge Sachs struts over Fiat items. Boge are OEM to many manufacturers and I've fitted hundreds of Boge struts over the years with no issues.
Bottom arms were TRW. Do not fit Starline from ECP, their budget range. The price may be tempting but I've personally had a a few issues with bushes failing and I've seen seen many more. TRW are the ones I was recommended and so far so good.
Top mounts I used were Lemforder. Again, OEM to BMW for donkeys years so good enough for me.
Drop links I used were TRW again.

 

[MN500]

I hope this picture helps you, it did me when I was recently sourcing parts for the same job.

Again, replace everything with decent parts if you plan on keeping the car, I used Sachs springs and Bilstein dampers, drop links and top mounts are Original Birth from shop4parts. Definitely get the covers (#12) to prevent the rust on the top dishes along with a light smear of grease/Waxoyl, I thought mine were bad but yours...!!

 

[John202020]

I bought Lemforder lower arms(and top mounts) these arms come with a new pinch bolt that needs replacing, cheaper ones may not.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Despite being 'free', the top mounts do not make noise, except when they go light over a yump.
Looking at the rust on the top thread, that'll be a real pain to remove. Stick some plus-gas on it asap, then redo daily for a few days. You'll then need to get a wire brush into those threads, thoroughly, before attempting to remove the top nut. That'll be difficult, using a few dozen dremel ones might work.
Some colourful language will be compulsory.
500s suffer from these rusting, I think there was a cover avialable, may need to search a few threads for that. A useful addition once the job is done.

Most likely cause of noise is the drop links. They can feel good, but still make noise.
Bottom arms can be a little bit fiddly to get in, but otherwise nothing there too scary.

As said, replace it all, it'll feel like a new car. Did the Panda last year, still feels lovely.

Yup, soak those threads in Plus Gas! Here's a pic of one of them on my 2010 Panda after at least 24 hours of having PG squirted at them:



Looks much less rusty than yours but still wouldn't agree to be held with an Allen Key, which it bent. Had to use my air gun in the end. If you don't have an air gun you can grip the top of the damper rod through the spring with something like a self locking (mole) wrench which will damage the shaft so only do this if the strut is not to be reused. The wrench will not be very keen to grip the chromed finish on the shaft and sometimes wrapping a bit of emery cloth round the shaft first gives better grip. Often the chrome on the rod has corroded away, which will be why the seal is ruined, but this lets the mole get a grip. Getting something to grip the nut can be difficult too if you don't have a "go through" socket set. You can always grind a couple of flats on the outside of an ordinary socket so you can grip it with an open ended spanner to get round this so you can still poke the Allen Key down the middle. Doesn't damage the socket either which you can continue to use as normal.

The other big problem I had was getting the two clamping bolts out of the bottom of the strut. They looked to clean up quite nicely with my wire brush and again, like the damper rod nuts, I soaked them copiously in PG for over 24 hours. 2 of them snapped off - the bottom ones on both sides - and the other two undid but all four had to be seriously persuaded with a punch and lump hammer before they would come out. I was glad I'd decided to follow the advice of other forum members and just renew them.





I considered buying "posh" struts but decided in the end to go with whatever Shop4parts could offer me. I've been buying stuff for both cars from them for a number of years now and always been pleased both with their service and the Quality of their goods. Some of the brands worried me to begin with as I'd never heard of them "Original Birth", "Top Line", etc but all has been well. I also find them exceptionally helpful if you need to ring for advice and often they have parts in stock which are not listed specifically under the section for your vehicle on their site. So a call is always a good idea if you can't find the part you're wanting. Here's a picture of the stuff laid out before I started work on Becky:



And here's the N/S one all done waiting for the wheel to go back on. The dampness on the inner wig is some of the shocker oil which got sprayed all around:



I would agree with the advice on here to just go for a complete rebuild, including bottom arms, drop links, etc which will obviously give you the best result but Becky's bottom arms looked to be in excellent condition so I decided, after checking out the bushes very carefully, not to renew them. The results have been very pleasing. Before doing it she had a bit of a nose down stance, now she's dead level and looks much better for it. I've noticed a lot of these slightly older 169 models looking a bit "droopy" and, in my opinion it's due to a combination of "tired" road springs and "relaxing" rubber in the top mounts.

I agree with PB about the drop links. Despite there being nothing noticeable with mine at the time, the N/S one started knocking (bottom ball) within 6 months and I fitted a new one. Cheap to buy and easy to do. The O/S is still going strong and the whole car feels much more "tight" and pleasant to drive. I'm keeping an eye on the bottom arm bushes at each service but they don't give me any reason to suspect they need changed yet and tyre wear is "A Ok".

By the way, almost a certainty it'll need it's tracking (toe setting) done after this, especially if you replace the bottom arms (which, in my opinion should always be done in pairs using items from the same manufacturer on both sides)

PS. a nice big blob of grease, or waxoyl, or almost any greasy substance, on the threads will make dismantling easier when or if you have to do it again! My daughter in law's Jazz has nice little "boots" to protect the threads - Very Honda!

 

[WilliamH]

Thank you so much for the time you've taken to give such full answers. The photos and diagrams have helped enormously, too. Now to eBay and filling the shopping basket!

 

[John202020]

If you're keeping the car, as we are, that's why I went for Lemforder, shop around or the best price £75 ea as far as I can see.
Shocks? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-G7305...e:Fiat&hash=item3fb31a3d99:g:D3UAAOSwt95dusV3

 

[The Panda Nut]

For inof only... I replaced the front suspension on our 169 and after a short while noticed a metallic clicking over bumps. Took it to dealers after failing to locate the issue and they couldnt find it either.

After more irritation I took the whole suspension out again and eventually found the strut bellows / gaiter has a hard plastic top bush. This was incorrect size for the piston and rattles about causing an alarming amount of noises. Nothing a lump of silicon mastic couldn't cure... I should have bought Fiat parts rather than much cheaper ones from Spares4U. The annoying thing is I accidentally ordered 4 of the things by accident. These are all now in the bin and the car is silent again.