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Technical Mayonnaise

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Technical Mayonnaise

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ihs61

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Hi
I have just checked the oil on my sons Panda (2006 1.1 active, 68,000 miles) and noticed some mayo on the dip stick, I removed the filler cap and it was covered in the stuff.
I changed the oil in it 5 weeks ago and it was fine then, I have also just checked the coolant level and its noticeably lower than the level, weirdly the car runs fine and the temp is normal with a toasty heater.
Since changing the oil the car, its only been used to go from home to work and back a distance of 1/2 a mile each way.
Am I correct in assuming that the head gasket is starting to fail and needs changing before it goes and the engine over heats ? and if that's the case roughly what kind of garage bill can I expect ?
Many thanks in advance for any input
Ian
 
Problem is, this time of year especially on short drives, condensation forms inside the engine and causes the mayo. Usually in the oil filler cap and inside the rocker cover, not usually on the dipstick but not impossible. I would suggest you get a gas test of the coolant that checks for combustion gasses in the coolant. This is usually considered the 'acid test' for a head gasket failure. Loss of coolant may be a sign of gasket failure but it also may be a sign of a leak!
 
Thanks for your reply, I am sure the garage will test it prior to disassembly,
What about using some K seal ?
 
Fair point, K seal = emergency temporary cock use only !
 
Highly likely to be nothing more than condensation. A bit of mayo at this time of year is normal. I would expect it especially as it’s only switch on half a mile at a time. As is white smoke out of the exhaust at this time of year. Surprised we haven’t had a few threads on this yet this year


Post some photos



How low is the coolant. Mine have never hold at the max mark and usually settle at the 3/4 full.


It’s worth keeping an eye on it. pandas aren’t immune to springing a small leak


If the head gasket has gone via the water jacket. It would be unusual for the coolant pipes not to go rock solid as soon as you switch the car on. Smell of exhaust at the expansion tank, scum on top of the coolant and a stream of bubbles entering the expansion tank
 
Tell your son to walk if it's only half a mile.

Top up all the fluids and clean up as much of the "mayo" as you can. Take it for a good drive.
If you still lose coolant and have "mayo" under the oil cap then you should investigate further.
You should see the amount of water I get in my oil catch can. It's quite surprising.
 
Thanks for all the reply's,
I have taken the car to a garage who listened to my version of the symptoms and after there investigation have said its most likely to be mayo caused by condensation and nothing to worry about.
Not totally convinced I bought a chemical tester kit and after using as per the instructions the blue liquid remained blue, but... I am still loosing fluid, and amassing Mayo (from a hot engine, filler cap cleaned and re-fitted, engine run for a few more minutes and the mayo is back).
There are no signs of a leak from the coolant pipes/rad, however, I have noticed that the engine block is clearly damp, back L/H side just above the alternator. The cylinder head is clean and dry, so it would be logical to assume its coming from the head gasket in this corner. Its hard to tell if its damp due to oil or coolant
Assuming this it is the gasket, any ideas of what a garage might charge to fix it ?
Many thanks and best wishes. Ian
 
It depends on how far your chosen garage intends to go. If I have had a head gasket failure I always get the block and head checked to ensure they are level and if not one or both are skimmed until they are level ( assuming not so badly warped they have to be replaced ) You just don't know how far you have to go to fix these things until you are in there. At 70K I would be tempted to replace valve stem seals whilst in there too. Only thing you can do is find out their hourly rate and put a limit on it. If they give a fixed price I would be careful because as I said earlier you do not know what you are going to find and throwing a gasket in, winding up head-bolts really tight will last a 30 day warranty but after that .....?
 
steel side plates of the radiator
steel pipe across the front of the engine
water pump
heater matrix

are the normal leak areas

how much are you loosing. Does it loose a lot quickly then slow down.

how much mayo are we talking about ? photos

a bit is normal, here's my working car
 

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Mayo in the oil filler cap is not a big worry - it just needs a long drive to dry out the engine. Mayo on the dip stick is (very) not good as it suggests the whole oil charge has turned to emulsion. The only cause for that is coolant in oil = head gasket.

Change the oil & filter and drive the car for a long run with regular fluid checks. Your risk is the head gasket does a "proper" job and you get stranded or the oil gets contaminated again meaning another oil change. Either would show you have a head gasket problem.
 
DaveMcT said:
Mayo in the oil filler cap is not a big worry - it just needs a long drive to dry out the engine. Mayo on the dip stick is (very) not good as it suggests the whole oil charge has turned to emulsion. The only cause for that is coolant in oil = head gasket.

Change the oil & filter and drive the car for a long run with regular fluid checks. Your risk is the head gasket does a "proper" job and you get stranded or the oil gets contaminated again meaning another oil change. Either would show you have a head gasket problem.
Click to expand...
small amounts of condensation in the oil dipstick (mayo) is normal for a car that's only does 800 yards at a time in winter

milky oil and/or the level constantly raising would be more of indication of something amiss.

without the Photos asked for in Post 6 and post 11 we are diagnose with are hands tied behind are backs but nothing the original poster has said would point me to anything other than a coolant leak which does need sorting before it leads to more problems


A garage should be able to help with a pressure test
if you can't find anything.
 
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Agreed that this stays a guessing game until there are pictures. To make sure you are indeed loosing coolant you should always check the level with a cold motor and an unpressurized system. it could be that with the small travel time and the cold outside temperature that the thermostat is not opening at all or just a small bit. if there is a leak or air bubbel in the big circuit then you will only see it when the car is up to temperature.

My suggestion is to fill up the coolant tank, bring extra in a jug and go for a nice long drive. this will heat up the car, the oil and the coolant. a long drive does not mean you need to go far, 10 times the same route around the house does the same. Getting heat into the oil will help removing the mayo, (make sure the oil breather and hoses are clean of mayo before you start), getting the whole car up to temperature will cause the condensation on the outside of the block evaporate and the coolant will flow through the whole system and expose a leak if it's there. If the engine is hot and there is a leak, the coolant will evaporate and leave a clear pink mark around the leak.
 
ihs61 said:
Hi
I have just checked the oil on my sons Panda (2006 1.1 active, 68,000 miles) and noticed some mayo on the dip stick, I removed the filler cap and it was covered in the stuff.
I changed the oil in it 5 weeks ago and it was fine then, I have also just checked the coolant level and its noticeably lower than the level, weirdly the car runs fine and the temp is normal with a toasty heater.
Click to expand...

The OP says the oil on the dipstick's is mayo colour. That's not just condensation especially as the oil is (was) new. DO not use the engine unit you have found why there is so much water in the oil. Enough to show on the dipstick is not an egg cup of condensation.

The head gasket needs to be checked out as that's the likely source of so much water in the oil. Also check out the likely cause of coolant leaks. Steel water pipe, rad core, water pump, etc.
 
depends is the evap (carter ventilation) is completely clogged and the seal on the dipstick is not tight it will try to vent from there causing mayo in the dipstick.
 
DaveMcT said:
The OP says the oil on the dipstick's is mayo colour. That's not just condensation especially as the oil is (was) new. DO not use the engine unit you have found why there is so much water in the oil. Enough to show on the dipstick is not an egg cup of condensation.

The head gasket needs to be checked out as that's the likely source of so much water in the oil. Also check out the likely cause of coolant leaks. Steel water pipe, rad core, water pump, etc.
Click to expand...
lets look at the evidence so far

the car drives fine
the car has passed a sniff test
a garage has looked at the car and hasn't charged like a herd of elephants to change the gasket
the car only goes 800 yards at a time and its cold and damp at this time of year

a small amount of mayo at the top of the engine is absolutely normal as at the top of dipstick tube again totally normal

if coolant was entering the oil system. The oil on the dipstick would look grey and the oil level would be raising

I would be looking for a coolant leak first. Assuming the system was blead correctly.
 
this is normal condensation on a dipstick that soon burns (not technically the correct term) off on a long drive
 

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ihs61 said:
Hi
I have just checked the oil on my sons Panda (2006 1.1 active, 68,000 miles) and noticed some mayo on the dip stick, I removed the filler cap and it was covered in the stuff.
I changed the oil in it 5 weeks ago and it was fine then, I have also just checked the coolant level and its noticeably lower than the level, weirdly the car runs fine and the temp is normal with a toasty heater.
Since changing the oil the car, its only been used to go from home to work and back a distance of 1/2 a mile each way.
Am I correct in assuming that the head gasket is starting to fail and needs changing before it goes and the engine over heats ? and if that's the case roughly what kind of garage bill can I expect ?
Many thanks in advance for any input
Ian
Click to expand...
I fitter catch cans to both our 1.2 cars and it has stopped this muck passing into the inlet manifold through the breather and the resulting expensive repairs. Catch can was about £15 and worth every penny. I throw out half a can of water every week. Its nothing to do with short runs as the car is used daily for a15 mile run up, the bypass to work and 15 miles back. You should see the amount of mayo foam produced by a twinair! If I remove the oil filler cap and run the engine, it blows out gobs the size of tennis balls. As its under warranty and the plumbing is more complex I am leaving it alone for now. Sealed cramk cases may be good for pollution but they are intensly bad for the engine!
 
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