Technical Lady in distress

[playgirl1978]

Hi guys

totally new to all this

i have an annoying problem with my punto 1.1 97 55s , we thought there was no oil getting to the top of the engine ( due to a loud knocking/tapping sound) so we flushed the engine with engine flush and put fresh oil in (15/40 as recommended) and the noise is still there.

when u apply pressure on to the cam sprocket (where the cam belt goes round) the noise stops .

what does this mean ?!?!?!?!? please help me as this is driving me up the wall and it sounds like a diesel

many thanks

Donna xx

 

[VII CKS]

Welcome.

What is the mileage of your Punto out of curiousity? High mileage engines tend to tap (due to dirty/worn tappets) which can actually be cleaned. Also other brands of car do it as normal in the cold (i.e Vauxhalls).

My friend had the same problem with his sporting he tried flushing the engine but then ended up changing to 5w40 FS Castrol Edge, which stopped the tapping noise and also requires less service intervals (he has a low mileage of about 60k for his year of car).

To me it also sounds like perhaps the tensioners have come loose or something and that is where some of the rattling is coming from. Does it stop when the engine is warmed or continue?

When did you last have a cambelt and tensioners change?

Victoria.

 

[playgirl1978]

Hi

Thanks for fast reply

Cam belt was changed about 5mths ago when head gasket was replace.

The noise is continuous louder at start quietens when running for a few minutes.

I have had tappets and shims checked and no serious wearing damage .

Mileage is quite low 10915k

The noise is defo coming from left hand side of the cam no one can tell me what bearing if a bearing is on that side of the cam, been searching forums internet for diagrams of the cam etc.. been phoning every where too.

would be great if someone could just point me in the right direction

I'm just stuck for answers

Many Thanks

 

[VII CKS]

No worries.

Did it make the noise before the cambelt was changed? When the cambelt was changed I am assuming that the tensioners/rollers were done too?

It sounds like a problem with something as when the engine gets warm it is quieter. I am taking it the noise is pretty loud. Have you tried some hydraulic lifter treatment by Wynns to see if that quietens the HL (tappets)?

I suppose mileage is still quite low for a 97' mines a 98' and is only at 92k.

I'm not too sure if there is a bearing on a 55. Maybe you should take it back to a garage so they can check that everything is torqued up to the right nm and nothing is loose to eliminate the problem of rollers/cambelt issue. Then you can start focussing on whether it is the tappets more or not.

Awaiting your reply.

 

[VII CKS]

Does it also squeel sometimes or screech on start up? That sometimes leads you to believe it is the timing belt tensioner. Also check the tensioners on the alternator as they can make quite a noise and come loose (neighbour had a problem with his BMW doing that, and making a tapping noise).

Here's a guide.

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-guides/145691-how-replace-timing-belt-tensioner.html

 

[playgirl1978]

yes new tensioners/rollers there was a slight whine from the pulley before and after but it wasn't really noticeable but now it has gotten louder did take it back to the garage and they said it sounded like the cam its self was moving left and right .
no squeel from the belts

while the car is running you can hear what sounds lke the tappets but with pressure applied to the cam (mechanic pushed a round metal dowel on to the cam) while it was running and the knocking stopped car sounded sweet ??

(sounds like the cam belt was over tightened and has now worn away what ever it is holding it in place ) but no one can tell me what is supposed to be there ?? ie. bearing , oil seal , rib bearing ,sleeve bearing and so on (these are names what i have been told by other mechanics )
this is why i was looking for an exploded view of a cam which is labeled

 

[dave]

how are you applying pressure on to the cam sprocket when its running?

 

[playgirl1978]

lol as stated in the last post
(mechanic pushed a round metal dowel on to the cam) while it was running and the knocking stopped car sounded sweet ??

i think the dowel was or could have been an extension bar (for a ratchet)

 

[chaos]

Whereabouts was the cam pressed?

Have the cam clearances and the timing been checked?

 

[playgirl1978]

cam clearance and timing is fine

i will try and do a small video of what he did so that way you can see and hear what im going on about

 

[Oldschool]

Sometimes the oils splash guard under the camcover starts rattling and when getting warm expands and the noise will get less or disappears.

Sometimes the old pressed steel sprockets get out of balance and this can cause a tapping noise.

The 55 head doesn't have bearings. The head is the bearings.

How do you know that the work was done properly?

@ vix - The sporting engine never shouls have been used in the first place without a 5wXX.

Problems will occur with any 10w or higher oil.

 

[playgirl1978]

here is a small video not a very good one sound is a bit distorted but hey yhh that's the phone for you you can hear the hollow metallic sound when the cam is not under any pressure

[ame="http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj313/bla-acidman/?action=view&current=MOV00029.flv"]

[/ame]

the work was done properly i know this as i have done it my self i have had the car now for 4 years and maintained it myself (even the HG)
and have been doing mechanics for about 10 years only not to be ripped off by garages

 

[VII CKS]

@ vix - The sporting engine never shouls have been used in the first place without a 5wXX.

Problems will occur with any 10w or higher oil.

Sorry I don't quite get what you are getting at.

Castrol Recommends for Sporting engines:

10w40 Magnatec, or 0w30 Edge (other applications it says 5w30).

Usually at work we are told that you shouldn't deviate from the top number i.e 40, my mate used 5w40 in his sporting and it stopped the tapping noises.

Edge 0W-30 (r,s) 2.8 Magnatec 10W-40 A3/B3
(from castrol websites).

 

[dave]

castrol sucks, you want a 5w 40 in all 16v fire engines. as per the revised manufacture data sheet

 

[VII CKS]

Castrol has never let me down. It's better than cheap Halfords/Wilco/Asda/Tesco's crap.

Castrol is up there with Sikolene, Mobil, and Motul.

 

[dave]

i would choose Halfords/Wilco over castrol any day. comma make wilco's oil and that is part of esso.

the right grade is more important than the make

 

[playgirl1978]

well i have used the right grade for my car as it states in the auto data 2007 cd which is 15/40 and i too believe in spending just that little extra on a brand name oil because the car is worth it

my motto is look after your car and the car will look after you

 

[dave]

but fiat revised manufacture data sheet says 10w 40 for the 8v

i dont think that is causing the noise though. if its stopping with the stick rubbing on sprocket, its time to see what bit has play in

 

[playgirl1978]

lol this is what i am asking
is there a bearing there or sleeves or ???
i have no idea as i have asked loads of mechanics and fiat dealers and all come up with a different answer (fiat dealer GSF) say there is no bearing ????
so what is taking the strain of the taught cam belt ?? has to be a bearing or a sleeve
looks like ill end up looking for a newer head and changing it
so if any one knows anyone who has one for sale

 

[Pat McCoy]

That is def a bearing