Technical Key Code Problem

[Tonyinfrance]

Hi all

(I live in France)

I am new to the forum. I have recently bought a 2001 Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD right hand drive van. After a couple of weeks I started to have problems starting the van the key code light didn't go out so I took the van to my local garage who is also an electrical specialist. It's now been there for over a week the problem is I only have the red key it doesn't work. I also don't have the card with the code. So the garage spoke to Fiat here in France who said " if you have a pre 2004 Ducato JTD and don't have the card or the code they can not help, they have no code" When the garage asked if they could bypass then to get my van going Fiat said it's not possible. In other words tough. Help!!

Please can anyone give me some advice?

Tony

 

[PeterM]

G'day Tony

Do a search on this Forum. I tried "key code bypass" (without the quotes) and got two very long threads with help that should be relevant to you.

 

[Tonyinfrance]

G'day Tony

Do a search on this Forum. I tried "key code bypass" (without the quotes) and got two very long threads with help that should be relevant to you.

Hi Peter

I have looked but I am still none the wiser can you let me know how you sorted your problem?

Many thanks

Tony

 

[PeterM]

...can you let me know how you sorted your problem?

Sorry, I have not had the problem. If I remember correctly, the gist of the solution is to remove the security wiring from the fuel pump. Just a single wire needs to be cut? Someone else will come along and clarify, I expect.

 

[lebesset]

frankly tony you should go to the nearest fiat agent and get a quote ; does the van not start at all now?...normally they can sort it so long as you have the red master key , this shouldn't be used normally ; fiat supply a couple of sets of normal keys , if you lose them new ones can be made using the master key to programme them

either way it ain't going to be cheap ...between €200 and €1,000

at the end of the day you can have the disabling system smashed off the fuel pump , what your insurance company would think of that I can't say ; but fiat are wrong to say it can't be disabled ....the methodology is in the threads you have read

incidentally , the card apparently gives the codes for the master key [ in case you lose that !]
I also understand that key makers can read the codes off the red key with a device they have !

my card reads
electronic code xxxxx
mechanical code letter xxxx

so maybe it is worth taking your red key to one of those places at the supermarket and see if it can still be read ; iif so it could be the reader on the steering column that is faulty , or maybe a new key with the correct code would do the trick ...sounds like you need a couple

addition...just noticed that the number on all my keys is not the same as the mechnical number on the card ...no idea what that is therefore !

 

[Tonyinfrance]

I didn't lose either the keys or the card I bought the van with just a red key and was not aware that I had this big problem coming around the corner. All I want to do now is solve the problem as quick and as cheap as possible.

The reason I bought the van was to be able to do my job as a selfemployed builder. I now have loads of work and no way of doing it.

From the threads I have read there seems to be a way of bypassing that is very quick and easy as in lots of cases it seems to only cost about £50 to £100. I don't need an immobiliser I just need a van that starts. I understand if anyone who knows this quick way is reluctant to put it on view but if anyone could pm me or email me I would very pleased.

Thanks anyway for your input.

Tony

 

[PeterM]

Seems to me that the third post on the following link is the relevant one for you:
https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/48183-ducato-code-problem-3.html

Also seems you have nothing to lose by giving it a try...

 

[Tonyinfrance]

Thank you peter I will give it a try.

Tony

 

[lebesset]

surely the best thing to do is to ascertain what the problem actually is ...
destroying the immobiliser will reduce the value of the vehicle as any professional will tell you

and if the problem is , for example , just the sensor on the steering column , then there is a cheap fix , change that , get some extra keys as you should , and you are in an as new situation

but it is your money , presumably you are willing to stand the loss if the vehicle gets stolen and wrecked [ as so often ] ; insurance companies aren't mugs you know ,... perhaps australian insurance companies have different rules to europe

actually , just noticed something ! you have a RHD vehicle so presumably first registered in the uk ! the uk didn't issue the card as well as the red key but kept a record of the numbers ...the rest of the EU gave out the key AND the cards but kept no record as stated by fiat france ]

so why not try phoning fiat uk with the chassis number and ask if they have the number [ do you know the previous uk registration ? ]
then if it is the red key that is faulty you can merely have new keys made
personally I would try asking the supermarket key made what he can read on your red key before doing anything else ! bet he has seen one before!

 

[Tonyinfrance]

An update on my position. My van has now been sat at the local garage for over ten days. I took on board the advice offered and had the antenna checked, had the sensor below the steering column checked and the cable to the ecu checked, all ok. So we sat on our hands and waited until today for the Fiat man to come who checked the red key and coded a new blue key for me so I have a spare. The problem is I still don't have a van that starts. The consensus from the man at the garage and the Fiat man is I have a problem with my ECU.

In my last post I was talking about a possible bypass but have since found that as I have a common rail injector system it is not possible?

So I have spent most of today trying to source a new ECU. I have found a couple at very reasonable prices. But I need some more advice if anyone can help me please. I have been offered either a new ECU or a new decoded ECU. My questions are what does decoded mean and if I fit a new ECU do I then have to get the keys recoded?

Many thanks for help to date any now offered.

Tony

 

[lebesset]

well , at least some progress tony , the red key is ok , you now have a proper ' daily driver' key to use [ hopefully you will have seen how easy it is to make one if you have the red key ...if you watched the fiat guy do it please report back on the methodology in case he knows something we don't !]

the steering column sensor checks out ...may I presume the 'key' indicator light goes out ok ?

now before you buy a new ECU , can I suggest another scenario ?
it is not unknown for the pump not to activate when switched on , they are fairly exposed on the jtd as well I presume ; how about checking that when the ignition is switching on the immobiliser on the pump is actually disabled by a current ? and , if necessary a separate 12v feed from a battery to the pump to ascertain that the pump will actually work ? sorry to cut across the diagnosis of your experts , but I think if you search here you will find a reference to the pump contacts getting gunged up and a clean up getting it back in order

btw , as I understand it , a coded ECU will require all new locks / keys etc
but I could be wrong ! and , at a guess , the uncoded one won't ...but please don't take my word for it !!!!

boy , am I glad I managed to get a 2001 2.8idTD , no ECU with the last incarnation of that engine [ for anyone interested you can tell the last ones because the alternator drive belt looks line a cam belt from it's width ]

 

[Tonyinfrance]

No I wasn't at the garage when the new key was coded so I didn't see it done. The immobiliser light doesn't go out that is the problem. They both believe that the ecu is not reading the code properly, so no light off. With regards the pump on this model there is no immobiliser on the pump as it is a common rail system.

Having looked on the www for hours and hours I am getting more and more confused. As the ECU, the key barrel and the sensor below the steering column are all provided by different manufacturers surely day one it has to be coded by someone. So what is the diference of coding all new or recoding the existing key and sensor to handshake with a new ECU. Am I being stupid hear or can one of you experts shed some light on this for me.

Many thanks

Tony

 

[lebesset]

well frankly now I am suspicious of your so called fiat expert ; if he came with the fiat diagnostic kit he would know what the ECU was reading !
and the sensor on the steering column accepts the key on idTD engines and the light goes off , and they don't even HAVE an ECU
so how did he know if the red key was working , and if it is , is it that the steering column sensor isn't working properly ; is your blue key properly made ? you use the red key to register it on the ECU if I understand correctly , which is why you shouldn't use the red key on a daily basis , it's like disabling the firewall on your computer

frankly only someone with the correct diagnostic kit can find the problem here , and that is the fiat agent ....can you not ascertain from your local garage who this man was that came , and what equipment he used , did he strip the steering column shroud and seek a bad connection on the sensor
personally I would be stripping the shroud an seeking a poor connection on the sensor next ...it is a cost nothing move ; if you have said in the first place that the key light didn't go out I would have told you to start with the sensor , bad connections there are not unknown
how far are you from a proper fiat agent anyway ?

 

[lebesset]

strange to say this subject has just come up again , and comments made about how often the transponder in the red key fails and won't turn out the immobiliser light

at the same time it appears that some fiat agents in the uk have installed equipment to make new keys after failures , and the fiat agent in swindon was mentioned as being one of them

why not a phone call to service reception to fiat at swindon , tell them the light won't go out when you turn your only key ..the red one , and ask for advice , explaining you are broken down in france ! if the red key is faulty your new blue one is no good either !
and have you tried the key man at the supermarket yet ???

the other thing that occurs to me is that , as you now have a french registered / insured vehicle , the insurance normally includes getting towed to somewhere the vehicle can be repaired ...like the fiat agent for example

worth a try , anyway

and apologies , you did say the light didn't go out !

 

[lebesset]

and?