General Info with Engine transplant......

[dazzo666]

hi all, just wondering out of intrest what would be the easiest transplant for the Little Panda...
was gonna put a bike engine in but then found out how much they cost for a busa engine....Eeeeeek.....

Any info much appreciated. Got the M.O.T on saaday so hope all will be ok..

Regards Dazzo..

 

[Xen]

a bike engine would have been a huuuuge job anyway. i considered it for the cinq but theres just too many problems to get around for it to be a plausable conversion for me..

 

[FuzzyPanda]

If your original engine is a FIRE unit (750/1000) then a 1108/1242 8v is apparently quite straighforward. Then there's 1242 and 1368 16v FIREs too...

 

[panda-sport]

but then found out how much they cost for a busa engine....Eeeeeek.....

I thought you didn't like jap engines

The easy conversions are as Fuzzy says the 1242 8v spi and then either the 1242 8V mpi or the 1242 16v punto mk1. Next on the list are 1242 16v mk2 and 1368 16v's.

Other engines that will just about fit with some hammer work to the pannels are georges engine and the vauxhall v6, but they add far to much wieght.

If you go japanese then the toyota 4age engine should (in theory) just squeeze in as will the Honda B and D:devil: series engines. These wiegh in between 5-15kg more than the fire unit depending on individual specs.

The only simple way of getting a bike engine in is to by a 4x4 and run the drive to the rear axle:chin:

cheers Damon

 

[dazzo666]

I thought you didn't like jap engines

cheers Damon

I don't like Jap engines but like the power.....:slayer:
The bike engine is a pretty easy job in our working out, but the money issue is not....
So what unit will fit the panda box ??
and will a Uno turbo 1400 8v fit without a lot of work??
Cos i'm not too sure on what is entailed but guessing the running gear would have to be installed too as well as shorter driveshafts or different shafts

Sorry for all the questions but not being too experienced with the Pandas id like to gather as much info as i can get hold of! Also may benefit others out there thinking of doing the same....

Damo didn't you have a 2.0 8v engine kickin around??

 

[panda-sport]

The fire 1242 8v, 1242 16v and 1368 16v FIRE engines all bolt up to your Panda box.

As you guessed the Uno turbo route is not straight forward with wieght, gearbox, driveshaft and plumbing/cooling issues.

We just missed out on a cheep 2.0 8v when we last spoke at Staford, I've since spoken to someone who has fitted one to a Panda and it suffers from chronic overheating and understeer.

I'd be interested in your bike engine install ideas. Have you considered other bike engines, there are others with 130-160bhp for a lot less than the fabled busa (which is quite heavy for a bike engine), how about the suzuki gsx-r750 ?

 

[Chas Uno]

So what unit will fit the panda box ??

Any FIRE engine from the 750 8v up to the latest 1400 16v. Any FIRE engine will mate with any FIRE gearbox. Nice and simple that!

and will a Uno turbo 1400 8v fit without a lot of work??

No. It will be a big headache and the extra weight of the UT lump will kill the handling. If you must go turbo then think about a turbo FIRE conversion. The Van Aaken for the 1.1 Cinq Sporting was pushing out approx. 105bhp as standard, which is the same as the standard mk1 UT. However, the UT can be wound up to produce power higher than that though you might need to consider the point of having that much power in a Panda. With such a light shell and no LSD you'll just be lighting up the tyres and also heading for a ditch as soon as try and take a corner at speed.

Cos i'm not too sure on what is entailed but guessing the running gear would have to be installed too as well as shorter driveshafts or different shafts

I don't think anyone's done it to my knowledge and yes, you'll be getting into the realms of custom mounts/ drive shafts/ linkages/ cutting of the shell etc. It would require a lot of custom fabrication and as mentioned above the weight distribution will ruin the handling. Think of it this way - Damon's 16v Panda is "only" putting out 85bhp. But, thanks to the lighter weight of the FIRE vs UT lump the power to weight ratio is probably the same as the same car fitted with a UT engine. Of course with the UT lump you get that nice turbo kick though this is offset by the fact that the FIRE version will go round corners far better

If you want an easy turbo swap you'd be better off looking at the Lancia Y10 turbo engine. As the Y10 was based on a Panda the 1050 Brazil turbo engine should, in theory, be a straight swap. You should also look into the work of Smokeme who used to post on here and used to drag race a turbo FIRE Panda over in Portugal. He was getting some silly amounts of power out of the FIREs, though their lifespan was considerably shortened as a result!

One of the reasons the Panda feels so nice to drive is because of it's light weight. Fitting a much bigger and heavier engine might make it go faster in a straight (ish) line but won't be as nice to drive. If you want to have it as a daily driver then stick with the bigger FIRE lumps. If you want big power and light weight then go the bike engined route. If you are only going to use it for the 1/4 mile drag strip then stop messing around and fit a mid mounted small block supercharged V8

 

[Chas Uno]

I'd be interested in your bike engine install ideas. Have you considered other bike engines, there are others with 130-160bhp for a lot less than the fabled busa (which is quite heavy for a bike engine), how about the suzuki gsx-r750 ?

The 'Busa is the one everyone mentions because (I think) it was/ is the most powerful road going mass produced bike engine. However, the Honda Blackbird wasn't far behind and don't discount things like the Kawasaki ZXR1200 engine. For cheapness there are still a few ZZR1100, FZR1000 and GSXR-1100 engines floating around for not much. In fact, why not look at an early GSXR engine as they were oil cooled rather than water cooled, therefore eliminating a lot of cooling system issues? You'll still need a big radiator for the extra oil capacity but it should theoretically pose less problems. And for compactness a Fireblade engine is incredibly small for 900cc!

Lots of options available

 

[panda-sport]

The main problem with transplants into the panda is the size of the engine bay. It may look nice and roomy due to its nice flat sides but its about 2 inches too narrow on width and about 6 inches to short on depth. You can't even fit a supersprint manifold on a standard engine without moving the radiator.

Some of this was addressed by Lancia when they made thier version of the Panda, the Y10. They moved the postion of the steering rack, fitted a slimer heater and fitted the radiator in front of the front panel.

From my research most engines that where origanaly designed as a 1500/1600 won't fit. 1200/1300's that have been streched to 1600ish are the most likely to fit and the fiat 1368 16v is hard to beat in this game

 

[dazzo666]

Excellent guys, thanks loads for your comments and replies very helpfull....
Regards to the m/bike route what i need is a whole complete bike as i need all of the componants including the engine cradle, But even the price of the old fzr1000 is still a bit pricey... Have to keep my eyes peeled...
Think i will go for like what you all say the 16v option.....
Will keep yuo all posted on progress, will be slow as its cold outside now....
Cheers guys.. Dazzo..