General Impromptu 230km Sunday drive

[Sbf500]

So due to some unforeseen circumstances my mother in law needed her garage back pronto and so at short notice we headed off on the train this morning from Dublin to Limerick to wake my little 500 up from his Winter slumber.

I had planned on doing the trip once I had finished the garage build and the weather was a little nice and the days a little longer, but it wasn’t to be. But I wasn’t going to let the howling wind and lashing rain change my mind on the route I had planned. I’d done the old road between Limerick and Dublin a number of times so it was time for something different.

So this morning I found my self on the train with the rough plan of heading out from Limerick and head cross country via the Clare Hills to Thurles, Castlecomer, Carlow, Glendalough, Roundwood, Glencullen and home in Dublin. What could possibly go wrong on a car that hadn’t been started in 2 months…..

Ok flat battery, never mind pop it on the charger and get on with checking oil, gear box oil, greese king pins etc. Ok take two…still not starting. Time to call the brother in law for a jump start. Given the car always seemed to manage a spark and start even with a pretty dead battery I should have taken this as a bad omen. But off we went.

Quick pit stop for fuel and we headed for the Clare Hills but having just got 20 mins down the road, there came the ominous signs of a miss fire on one cylinder when the car gets hot.

Agh I was plagued by this problem for years and having resolved it about 4 years ago I was having visions of this being trip over.

Pulled over and grabbed the spare condenser from the box. The existing one was roasting! Anyway, new one on and we were off.

The car was now running well but struggling to idle well and a couple of times it stalled and was a struggle to start when hot which it typically has been fine with. Anyway I took one of these impromptu stops to try and take some arty picks next to and old church to try and make my breakdown not look to obvious.

Apart from the breakdown and hot start issue the route choice had been a good one with the highlight being the R503 through the Clare Hills. The bit south of Glendalough I imagine was also amazing….but it was dark and I was finding my way with candles, aka standard headlights.

But that is skipping over my second proper breakdown. The new condenser had come loose, it looks like the thread in the distributor is starting to strip as I had to be very careful nipping it up.

Anyway, from that point on through the dark, wind and rain the car was fine, well almost. About 15 mins from home I started to notice a slight squeak, not quite a squeal like a belt but similar. Anyway made it, pulled in the drive and left the car idle while I opened the side gate to get the car round the back of the house out of the way and just as I was about to jump in it cut out. Jumped in and turned the key, pulled the starter and…flat battery. Checked the terminals and cables, nope definitely flat. Umm so jumped it off the daily and while it was idling there was a definite squeak/whine/quiet squeal. Is that the noise of a generator on the way out? The charge light had gone out so I am confused.

Anyway, one for another day, when the garage is done. But even with the breakdowns, wind and rain, it was good to be out in the 500 again.

 

[bugsymike]

So due to some unforeseen circumstances my mother in law needed her garage back pronto and so at short notice we headed off on the train this morning from Dublin to Limerick to wake my little 500 up from his Winter slumber.

I had planned on doing the trip once I had finished the garage build and the weather was a little nice and the days a little longer, but it wasn’t to be. But I wasn’t going to let the howling wind and lashing rain change my mind on the route I had planned. I’d done the old road between Limerick and Dublin a number of times so it was time for something different.

So this morning I found my self on the train with the rough plan of heading out from Limerick and head cross country via the Clare Hills to Thurles, Castlecomer, Carlow, Glendalough, Roundwood, Glencullen and home in Dublin. What could possibly go wrong on a car that hadn’t been started in 2 months…..

Ok flat battery, never mind pop it on the charger and get on with checking oil, gear box oil, greese king pins etc. Ok take two…still not starting. Time to call the brother in law for a jump start. Given the car always seemed to manage a spark and start even with a pretty dead battery I should have taken this as a bad omen. But off we went.

Quick pit stop for fuel and we headed for the Clare Hills but having just got 20 mins down the road, there came the ominous signs of a miss fire on one cylinder when the car gets hot.

Agh I was plagued by this problem for years and having resolved it about 4 years ago I was having visions of this being trip over.

Pulled over and grabbed the spare condenser from the box. The existing one was roasting! Anyway, new one on and we were off.

The car was now running well but struggling to idle well and a couple of times it stalled and was a struggle to start when hot which it typically has been fine with. Anyway I took one of these impromptu stops to try and take some arty picks next to and old church to try and make my breakdown not look to obvious.

Apart from the breakdown and hot start issue the route choice had been a good one with the highlight being the R503 through the Clare Hills. The bit south of Glendalough I imagine was also amazing….but it was dark and I was finding my way with candles, aka standard headlights.

But that is skipping over my second proper breakdown. The new condenser had come loose, it looks like the thread in the distributor is starting to strip as I had to be very careful nipping it up.

Anyway, from that point on through the dark, wind and rain the car was fine, well almost. About 15 mins from home I started to notice a slight squeak, not quite a squeal like a belt but similar. Anyway made it, pulled in the drive and left the car idle while I opened the side gate to get the car round the back of the house out of the way and just as I was about to jump in it cut out. Jumped in and turned the key, pulled the starter and…flat battery. Checked the terminals and cables, nope definitely flat. Umm so jumped it off the daily and while it was idling there was a definite squeak/whine/quiet squeal. Is that the noise of a generator on the way out? The charge light had gone out so I am confused.

Anyway, one for another day, when the garage is done. But even with the breakdowns, wind and rain, it was good to be out in the 500 again.

Look at it the other way, if it was a modern car you would still be at the side of the road waiting for a recovery lorry
Older cars at least are meant to be repaired.
Re the condensor when screw thread worn, try fitting a condensor at the coil on the CB side.
Many times in the late 60s going out to a break down, I would clean the points, disconnect the duff condensor in the distributor, then move the radio suppressor often found on the SW (live side) of coils in those days and fit it on the CB (contact breaker) side to act as a condensor allowing vehicle to drive back to garage for correct replacement.
Not something you can do with a modern car.
When you have a spare moment try that trick, make sure to disconnect the original and maybe keep a spare by the coil.

 

[Sbf500]

Look at it the other way, if it was a modern car you would still be at the side of the road waiting for a recovery lorry
Older cars at least are meant to be repaired.
Re the condensor when screw thread worn, try fitting a condensor at the coil on the CB side.
Many times in the late 60s going out to a break down, I would clean the points, disconnect the duff condensor in the distributor, then move the radio suppressor often found on the SW (live side) of coils in those days and fit it on the CB (contact breaker) side to act as a condensor allowing vehicle to drive back to garage for correct replacement.
Not something you can do with a modern car.
When you have a spare moment try that trick, make sure to disconnect the original and maybe keep a spare by the coil.

Great idea, thanks.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Look at it the other way, if it was a modern car you would still be at the side of the road waiting for a recovery lorry
Older cars at least are meant to be repaired.
Re the condensor when screw thread worn, try fitting a condensor at the coil on the CB side.
Many times in the late 60s going out to a break down, I would clean the points, disconnect the duff condensor in the distributor, then move the radio suppressor often found on the SW (live side) of coils in those days and fit it on the CB (contact breaker) side to act as a condensor allowing vehicle to drive back to garage for correct replacement.
Not something you can do with a modern car.
When you have a spare moment try that trick, make sure to disconnect the original and maybe keep a spare by the coil.

The wee screw which held the condensor to the baseplate in many distributors was a design almost designed to fail. The metal was only thick enough to get a couple of threads depth so ridiculously easy to strip if you were a bit ham fisted.

Additional radio suppressors, fitted to the coil to stop "crackle" on the radio from the HT, would often fail causing a non start or intermittent missfire. Very annoying but nice and simple to rectify compared to today's "nightmares"!

 

[the hobbler]

The wee screw which held the condensor to the baseplate in many distributors was a design almost designed to fail. The metal was only thick enough to get a couple of threads depth so ridiculously easy to strip if you were a bit ham fisted.

Additional radio suppressors, fitted to the coil to stop "crackle" on the radio from the HT, would often fail causing a non start or intermittent missfire. Very annoying but nice and simple to rectify compared to today's "nightmares"!

"Bugsmike's" suggestion tomove the condeserupto the coil is a very sednsible idea---it also gets it away from the heat of the "cooling" air coming fromthe engine,which can,on a hot day with a bit of 'enthusiastic' driving, exceed 100C---a temperature that most 'pattern' condensers (and electronic ignitions---of ALL types and costs) seem to have as the "terminal wilt" point. One answer is to fit one of the "Competition" condensers marketed by both "Swiftune" and "Shacktune". These condensers are designed for 'classic' racing cars where the regulations stipulate that the ORIGINAL form of ignition must be retained---so you have 'points' on a Ford GT40! These 'Competition' condensers do not earth through the condenser's body, so both the 'feed' and 'earth' leads are long enough that the condenser can be fitted remote from the distributor---in the case of the 500/126 engines, up by the coil. Being that they are built for competition use, both are built to a high standard.

 

[bugsymike]

"Bugsmike's" suggestion tomove the condeserupto the coil is a very sednsible idea---it also gets it away from the heat of the "cooling" air coming fromthe engine,which can,on a hot day with a bit of 'enthusiastic' driving, exceed 100C---a temperature that most 'pattern' condensers (and electronic ignitions---of ALL types and costs) seem to have as the "terminal wilt" point. One answer is to fit one of the "Competition" condensers marketed by both "Swiftune" and "Shacktune". These condensers are designed for 'classic' racing cars where the regulations stipulate that the ORIGINAL form of ignition must be retained---so you have 'points' on a Ford GT40! These 'Competition' condensers do not earth through the condenser's body, so both the 'feed' and 'earth' leads are long enough that the condenser can be fitted remote from the distributor---in the case of the 500/126 engines, up by the coil. Being that they are built for competition use, both are built to a high standard.

Perhaps @the hobbler knows a reason for modern condensor failure, I did wonder if the old design which I seem to remember had paper insulating wrapped around the other components inside when I cut one apart as an apprentice, was replaced with an inferior alternative?
In the 60s/70s I don't recall a large number of condensor failures when we used the branded Lucas, Bosch, Marelli etc. versions and every petrol car had points and condensors then.
We always replaced contact points at 5000 mile services as good practice, but only condensors if the condition of the contact points indicated it.
Also as the cars were everyday cheap transport they were driven hard. The 1960s 500 I owned in the late 70s was driven flat out most of my ownership, I can remember being impressed that with a full load doing a round trip of over 500 miles to a canal barge holiday with my foot on the floor it averaged 55 Mph and 55 Mpg in original Fiat spec. At the time Lotus proudly claimed their Elan was capable of 50Mpg in their adverts. Apart from a clutch and push rod tube seals when I bought the car just normal servicing, so a fair purchase of around £40 at the time.

 

[Noah500]

Sounds like a good trip, all things considered. btw, nice Fiat-themed wheelie bin

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

"Bugsmike's" suggestion tomove the condeserupto the coil is a very sednsible idea---it also gets it away from the heat of the "cooling" air coming fromthe engine,which can,on a hot day with a bit of 'enthusiastic' driving, exceed 100C---a temperature that most 'pattern' condensers (and electronic ignitions---of ALL types and costs) seem to have as the "terminal wilt" point. One answer is to fit one of the "Competition" condensers marketed by both "Swiftune" and "Shacktune". These condensers are designed for 'classic' racing cars where the regulations stipulate that the ORIGINAL form of ignition must be retained---so you have 'points' on a Ford GT40! These 'Competition' condensers do not earth through the condenser's body, so both the 'feed' and 'earth' leads are long enough that the condenser can be fitted remote from the distributor---in the case of the 500/126 engines, up by the coil. Being that they are built for competition use, both are built to a high standard.

Yes, an excellent idea. Never occurred to me to do that. There was one make of distributor which mounted the condenser externally so it was screwed into the thicker metal of the distributor casing - I liked that idea, also made it easier to change without any possibility of dropping the wee screw through the baseplate into the centrifugal advance weights which was possible on some makes of distributor.

Those competition condensers sound a good idea too.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

In the 60s/70s I don't recall a large number of condensor failures when we used the branded Lucas, Bosch, Marelli etc. versions and every petrol car had points and condensors then.
We always replaced contact points at 5000 mile services as good practice, but only condensors if the condition of the contact points indicated it.

Same here Mike, condenser failure was not all that common, although not unknown. For the younger amongst us a failed condenser resulted in poor engine running/failure to start and burnt/blued contact faces on the points. An easy diagnosis once you'd seen a couple like that.

Our boss insisted on a new condenser being fitted with every set of new points. Very occasionally this resulted in a previously well running engine running poorly due to the new condenser being faulty. Also it risked the possibility of the securing screw stripping. On my own vehicles I never changed the condenser unless the old points were showing obvious signs of "distress" and some never had a condenser fitted during their whole time with me.

 

[the hobbler]

Perhaps @the hobbler knows a reason for modern condensor failure, I did wonder if the old design which I seem to remember had paper insulating wrapped around the other components inside when I cut one apart as an apprentice, was replaced with an inferior alternative?
In the 60s/70s I don't recall a large number of condensor failures when we used the branded Lucas, Bosch, Marelli etc. versions and every petrol car had points and condensors then.
We always replaced contact points at 5000 mile services as good practice, but only condensors if the condition of the contact points indicated it.
Also as the cars were everyday cheap transport they were driven hard. The 1960s 500 I owned in the late 70s was driven flat out most of my ownership, I can remember being impressed that with a full load doing a round trip of over 500 miles to a canal barge holiday with my foot on the floor it averaged 55 Mph and 55 Mpg in original Fiat spec. At the time Lotus proudly claimed their Elan was capable of 50Mpg in their adverts. Apart from a clutch and push rod tube seals when I bought the car just normal servicing, so a fair purchase of around £40 at the time.

Hi "Bugsy"---the reason that so many 'pattern' condensers fail is because the quality of build is, to put non too fine a point on it---crap! I spoke to the boss of "The Distributor Doctor" about a year or so ago and he told me that he had taken some 'pattern' condensers apart and found that on average they had 1.5 metres of wire in them; the consensers that he has constructed for his company have 3 (THREE) metres of wiring in them! Just for interest,one of the standard consensers sold by "The Distributor Doctor" Company will.with a slight bit of tweeking of the mounting bracket,fit the 500/126 distributor. However, having suffered the same problem as "Sbf500" has (stripped thread), I think that the 'competition' condenser fitment is the way to go when 'points' ignition is retained.

 

[bugsymike]

Hi "Bugsy"---the reason that so many 'pattern' condensers fail is because the quality of build is, to put non too fine a point on it---crap! I spoke to the boss of "The Distributor Doctor" about a year or so ago and he told me that he had taken some 'pattern' condensers apart and found that on average they had 1.5 metres of wire in them; the consensers that he has constructed for his company have 3 (THREE) metres of wiring in them! Just for interest,one of the standard consensers sold by "The Distributor Doctor" Company will.with a slight bit of tweeking of the mounting bracket,fit the 500/126 distributor. However, having suffered the same problem as "Sbf500" has (stripped thread), I think that the 'competition' condenser fitment is the way to go when 'points' ignition is retained.

We used to get problems with Intermotor products when they first started up ion the 70s, but they did improve.