Technical HGT Throttle Body Silicon Hose suggestions

[sHAYM4N]

Ok really need to get this sorted once and for all. Been 3 years driving my car like this and its worse now than its ever been

Constant bungee jumping revs, (that now stall every other time I drop the speed & depress the clutch).

Haven't been able to find a garage local enough willing to take it on, so hoping someone here may have some pearls of wisdom, and may have to do it myself.

Problem was identified at a Fiat specialists as a split breather pipe (split in 3 places). They sealed it up tested it, said it was fine but said it may not last. Has been worse than ever for me

Been told the hose is no longer manufactured so may have to get a custom one made in silicon. I had a look yesterday to check which one it was, presume this is the one being well taped up (though it was previously taped looking at old photos).

Does anyone know somewhere I can get a hose made? I've contacted JS Performance today (and awaiting a reply) but not sure of other options. Presume I may have to disconnect this and send it off to whoever will be moulding one. Are there any issues in disconnecting & putting the new one in, or should I just continue my hunt for a professional?

Anyway I can test first that this definitely is the problem as the hose does still seem pretty well wrapped up.

 

[AnteLo]

If I remember correctly the hose is around 11mm in diameter, it should be easy to find and that garage is talking ****
PS: Remove the gauze on the throttle body

 

[sHAYM4N]

If I remember correctly the hose is around 11mm in diameter, it should be easy to find and that garage is talking ****
PS: Remove the gauze on the throttle body

Interesting thanks for that! Haven't been able to find them anywhere though have rung around some garages and might drop it in this week.

Isn't the gauze there as an extra filter measure or is that also going to limit it?

This morning thought I'd try something different. Read on the forum about the throttle body having to relearn itself (on a stilo) but thought I'd give it a shot.

1. Transmission on for a min.
2. Off for a min
3. Ran it on idle for 15 mins without touching the throttle.
1 and 2 again.

Took it into town on a couple of trips and not a single drop or stall. (Slight flutter at one point).

Maybe just a fluke or more that it had bee warmed up for 15 mins but defo 100x better than my last trip in it.

Thanks again!

 

[AnteLo]

throttle body having to relearn itself

you do that by leaving the battery unplugged over night, plugging the battery back in and then let it warm up fully while on idle RPM

After it warms up take it for a drive, do some WOT pulls and also drive a bit in a city

PS: Yes the gauze does limit the airflow a bit, also if you want you can block the coolant that goes trough the throttle body. It will give you a better throttle response, more power but the car may take a bit longer to warm up in extremely cold weather (-30C)

 

[sHAYM4N]

you do that by leaving the battery unplugged over night, plugging the battery back in and then let it warm up fully while on idle RPM

After it warms up take it for a drive, do some WOT pulls and also drive a bit in a city

PS: Yes the gauze does limit the airflow a bit, also if you want you can block the coolant that goes trough the throttle body. It will give you a better throttle response, more power but the car may take a bit longer to warm up in extremely cold weather (-30C)

Nice one thanks! May try the battery first then gauze if it starts again. Doubt we'll hit -30c anytime soon but may leave the coolant for now. That just one of the hoses that needs blocking off I presume?

Could any of this be due to the actual maf sensor? No garage has mentioned that but have seen the occasional one in stock on some sites and not that pricey.

Just seen that this TB seems to be pretty rare and expensive now (£300 for a shoddy used one in netherlands ? and anything new looks to be £600+) so don't want to mess it up more than it is either!

 

[AnteLo]

Yeah i agree on trying to get your car working properly before tuning it lol, honestly if the throttle body position sensor calibration doesn't work I will take a car to a known Fiat specialist.
Those cars are a bit tricky, what did you check so far?
Also you have a late CF3 car which has a digital cable throttle. Fiat Stilo 1.8 16v should have a same throttle body if you mess your up

If I can remember correctly the gauze is just attached by glue and it can be removed with hands

 

[sHAYM4N]

Yeah i agree on trying to get your car working properly before tuning it lol, honestly if the throttle body position sensor calibration doesn't work I will take a car to a known Fiat specialist.
Those cars are a bit tricky, what did you check so far?
Also you have a late CF3 car which has a digital cable throttle. Fiat Stilo 1.8 16v should have a same throttle body if you mess your up

If I can remember correctly the gauze is just attached by glue and it can be removed with hands

Perfect thanks! Yep believe an odd alfa had the same engine as well? Last time it was in I did take it to a Fiat specialist for that reason (not a main dealer). They were the ones that fixed up the breather hose. Gauze just clips off with a circlip I think (had it off before when I gave it a clean - though has never really looked dirty).

Only thing putting me off taking it back to the specialist is they're 30 miles away bang in the center of Leeds. Way it's driving atm I know it would be a nightmare in traffic if it goes on one of its stalling trips, so trying to find someone local, but most don't want to know.

Have it booked in for someone to take a look on Wednesday. They deal with bikes as well, so hoping they may know of a few more places if a hose has to be cast to fit.

Other than that haven't really tried anything other than asking every garage its been to to take a look. The main reason it last went into the garage was for something completely unrelated (I think) Engine wasnt firing up at all (with cam sensor error according to AA). Turning, just not firing. Even their spray in the intake did nothing, then it suddenly came back to life 10 minutes later. Hasnt had issues there since and was a mystery to the Fiat guys too. (They drove & tested it that way a lot mainly I think).

Had put a new battery in the week before so not sure if it was anything to do with that. TB problem I've had since I got it 3+ years ago though, just tends to be worse in winter, and worse now than its ever been

 

[AnteLo]

Yeah Alfa 1.6/1.8/2.0 TS used a similar engine with different head and some models had balancing shafts

Honestly a faulty cam sensor or cam sensor wiring could cause a bunch of problems

 

[sHAYM4N]

Yeah Alfa 1.6/1.8/2.0 TS used a similar engine with different head and some models had balancing shafts

Honestly a faulty cam sensor or cam sensor wiring could cause a bunch of problems

Thanks, yeah seemed to be a mystery to them at the garage, they couldn't guarantee it wouldnt happen again but just assured me they had done some decent trips in it. One of the guys there was using it for his commute and checked out ok.

My variator is loud and diesel sounding too. Last couple of months something has developed a whistling sound as well when I come off the accelerator which I was told to get checked out. Sounds to be mid to driver side of the engine bay.

Have no record of the timing belt being done either (though plenty of services) it's done 49k now so guess it maybe worth seeing about getting the variator, cam sensor & timing belt checked & done at the same time?

Brakes & end exhaust also need doing but all of it I've been holding back on because I just didn't want to throw money at it if this TB problem was something more serious.

Alternator seized as well a few months ago and had to be replaced. Belt went with a snap & since sounds like one of the bearing is squealing for 5 mins when warming up

Been trying to do the small jobs myself, but fighting with a lot at the moment. I work from home so it is sat a lot and our house is pretty exposed next to a field so it's not ideal. Have wanted to clean & degrease the engine bay as well for months but just too weary of that atm. Not sure whether it could help or hinder it right now.

Grabbed some new toys over the weekend and thought I'd at least clean the rest of her up (Surfex HD and an IK Foamer). Spotted 2 open drainholes underneath the scuttle when I was replacing the wiper motor/linkage as well. Have wiring looms right underneath so that looks a bit dodgy?! Not sure where those are supposed to be or for?!

Not many of these around now so really trying to keep her ticking!

 

[AnteLo]

Yeah that whisteling may be a vacuum leak which would explain idle problems.

Variator can be replaced by a newer Alfa revision one which does last a lot but honestly even if you replace the variator with old revision one and keep up with good quality/regular oil changes you aren't going to have a problem

I would definitely get the timing belt replaced ASAP by a professional

How much tools do you have and how handy are you? There isn't a lot of place in that engine bay but you can get things done

Honestly your car is rare CF3 euro4 model and I wouldn't risk with shady mechanics

While you are doing exhaust you may as well get the 2precats on the exhaust manifold removed
You will still pass emissions, you will gain a bit of power and the car will have a lower oil temperature when driving "dinamicly"

 

[sHAYM4N]

Yeah that whisteling may be a vacuum leak which would explain idle problems.

Variator can be replaced by a newer Alfa revision one which does last a lot but honestly even if you replace the variator with old revision one and keep up with good quality/regular oil changes you aren't going to have a problem

I would definitely get the timing belt replaced ASAP by a professional

How much tools do you have and how handy are you? There isn't a lot of place in that engine bay but you can get things done

Honestly your car is rare CF3 euro4 model and I wouldn't risk with shady mechanics

While you are doing exhaust you may as well get the 2precats on the exhaust manifold removed
You will still pass emissions, you will gain a bit of power and the car will have a lower oil temperature when driving "dinamicly"

Tools not a lot, just the basics, and handy wise same! Though do try & want to learn. Cant get a lot of tools & equipment either atm because our garage leaks & need to get that all done up too in the spring A good mate works at an engine reconditioning place and we took it there when I got it to do some bits, he did the spark plugs whilst I did the handbrake - so maybe able to persuade him to help again if I HAVE to end up tackling some of this myself. He's more engine knowledgeable than general mechanics, but he has done brakes before so was planning to see if we could tackle those once I knew it was worthwhile (& to save a bit of labour costs)


Only things I have done was to replace the handbrake lever when I got it, 3 wiper linkages, wheel removed (when I dremelled through one of those nasty metal valve caps into the valve )

Air filter change and throttle body clean. Does feel like it being pretty rare works against me with garages. Contacted a lot but most seem to shy away from it or want to do the bare minimum.

Thanks for all the advice btw, really hard to find much on the HGT now!

 

[Jonnio]

Timing belt is due every 5 years so worth getting it booked in.

Pretty sure the scuttle drain hole should have a rubber grommet/drain hose that extends downwards further.

That breather hose from the throttle body, if it's only damaged before the pipes split off just cut it and replace the straight bit with some rubber hose/pipe joiners. You could probabaly get a Y piece splitter if the whole thing is knackered. If I remember where I bought similar bits from earlier in the year I'll let you know :idea:

You could also contact breakers and see if that hose is available, or even a second hand throttle body to throw on and try. I used this place to source a HGT rear beam a couple of months back so they might have something - https://www.motorhog.co.uk/ they're tied in with a few big places under "Synetiq".

Wrapping tape round it doesn't seem like the best fix?!

 

[sHAYM4N]

Timing belt is due every 5 years so worth getting it booked in.

Pretty sure the scuttle drain hole should have a rubber grommet/drain hose that extends downwards further.

That breather hose from the throttle body, if it's only damaged before the pipes split off just cut it and replace the straight bit with some rubber hose/pipe joiners. You could probabaly get a Y piece splitter if the whole thing is knackered. If I remember where I bought similar bits from earlier in the year I'll let you know :idea:

You could also contact breakers and see if that hose is available, or even a second hand throttle body to throw on and try. I used this place to source a HGT rear beam a couple of months back so they might have something - https://www.motorhog.co.uk/ they're tied in with a few big places under "Synetiq".

Wrapping tape round it doesn't seem like the best fix?!

Thanks, yeah I have found it scribbled on the back of my service book actually that the timing belt was done in '12 at around 33k (now on 49k) so not as bad as I thought, I have to get the variator done & a slight leak in the exhaust manifold, so will take in for the job lot in the new year.

The rubber bungs I also mentioned to him, he said they were likely taken out if the scuttle pan was filling up. May see if I can find some from a breakers, would rather clean it out more often or cover it up, than have water draining down there constantly.


This throttle problem has just been putting me off throwing too much money at it. Had it in another garage this week, he checked the hose said it still seems to be well sealed up so he's not convinced that is that now. He checked & cleaned the earths (which is supposedly another cause) but couldn't replicate it on test driving (no-one but me ever seems to!)

He also said it can sometimes be the wiring looms if the engine vibrates a bit (which it does) so he tested that by pulling at them a little whilst it was running, but that all checked out fine too.

Seems to occur more often if I have to slow down faster or on a hill, so was even wondering if it could be to do with the fuel pump? Keeping an eye out for a TB from a breakers, but most I've seen look in worse condition than mine & not that cheap to take a punt on (excuse the pun! )

If I run it on idle for a good while 10 mins or so before a drive, it does seem better at time - I tried this last week, but also noticed a slight flutter at one point which also made me wonder if it was more to do with the fuel pump. Not sure how costly these are to fix/replace. Guy at the garage was also going to check the fuel filter when he twigged that it was built in and a long life one.

Seems to be stumping everyone I've taken it to, really frustrating!