Technical Gasoline smell in oil

[Rado77]

Thanks Bernie ;-) And also that oil filter - I mentioned that I'm using BOSCH P2041 (EAN code: 3165141830484) with specifications:
Opening pressure of bypass valve - 0.12 bar
Opening pressure of circulating valve - 1 bar
And here I'm not sure if it's ok....

 

[aurick86]

Thanks Bernie ;-) And also that oil filter - I mentioned that I'm using BOSCH P2041 (EAN code: 3165141830484) with specifications:
Opening pressure of bypass valve - 0.12 bar
Opening pressure of circulating valve - 1 bar
And here I'm not sure if it's ok....

Just get the filter from FIAT. The one they sell.
You can usually buy specific OEM parts at the dealer

 

[Rado77]

Hi Aurick ;-) OK, dealer is fortunately nearby my work. But can you guys send me link on oil filter which you are using please? Just to compare valve Bars with my BOSCH...

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Months ago, you've got advises like:
- valve clearance check and adjustment (by yourself, not garage/workshop),
- timing (confirm, DIY),
- lubrication (oil pump, clogged galleries/channels, especially head and cover),
- VVT (maybe actuator wheel - camshaft sprocket/pulley - is trashed, or solenoid only).
Then OK, valves themselves, pistons, crankshaft and its bearings... Maybe something else.

 

[Rado77]

I know I know But 1st I'm trying cheapest ways. Car is used daily by my wife. It's also starting/running well, so I decided only to monitor that ticking. It's not getting worse (more than half year) so I think it's nothing that could damage engine... It would be nice to solve it of course, but I decided only cheap methods for now (playing with different oil, different filter).
If things get worse, then I'll make full engine rebuild. That's why I asked for correct oil filter valve pressure (original service doesn't know...)

 

[Bernievarian]

The oil filter valve pressure doesn't have any effect on the lubrication by itself: it is there only to prevent oil lock occurring should the filter get clogged.

If this happens the valve will simply by-pass the filter, which O.C. will cease filtering the oil, which in turn could damage the engine, should this situation last for long...

Don't want to read all the stuff once again, have you replaced the VVT actuator?

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

 

[Rado77]

No I don't. I think VVT is runnig OK, on iddle is locked on zero degrees and opening after pedal pressure, MES diag no errors.
Regarding BOSCH filter - it looks that it has two valves: back valve (0.12 bar) and recirculation valve (1 bar). I'll try filter with highest possible bar parameters - I saw one with 1.3 Bar valve..and check if ticking changes somehow...

 

[Bernievarian]

Not sure if the ECU checks if the VVT did respond correctly to its move order, could you (MES) plot the expected correction vs the actual VVT position?

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

 

[Rado77]

ECU definately checks this - angle degrees of camshaft must match the SW map. It constantly measures crankshaft position vs camshaft position vs RPMs vs engine temperature (if conditions for regualting VVT system are met - like gas pedal must be pressed for example). There is some tolerance (I don't know exact value), but for example on hot engine on neutral when user press gas pedal and RPMs are 1200, angle of camshaft must be moved forward for example by 15 degrees (and SW tolerance is for example 13 - 16 degrees), and it's constantly compared to SW map in ECU. If tolerance is exceeded, ECU will immediately turn Engine light on dashboard + some error msg in ECU about incorrect timing

 

[Rado77]

Some ticking news Today I drove on highway and when I stopped near my house, I listened hot idle. Ticking was there, but quiter. But - after 20 seconds it completely disapeared and 1 minute was total silence - that was engine sound I expected so long After 1 minute without ticking it starts ticking again. I increased rpms for second, and when engine got idle rpms, there was still ticking for 10 seconds and disapeared again. Then I turned off engine. So maybe whole problem isnt mechanical, but some strange lubricating. I never saw valve cover from inside, but as I know oil is going to upper section of valve cover and is distributed to camshatf parts + VVT valve between cover and "metal shield". And as original service found oil slusge on VVT valve and cleaned it, maybe they doesnt cleaned also space between "metal shield" and valve cover - I mean that highest valve covers section... and I think that metal plate cannot be removed and whole section must be cleaned by brake cleaner for example....by pictures there are no bolts which holds that metal plate...its weld to valve cover...or not?

 

[Rado77]

Looks that metal plate holds on rivets

 

[Rado77]

Just for info (if someone is checking this) - new info regarding ticking noise on idle. I checked ticking yesterday on engine's operational temperature. I drove car appr 10 minutes. Temp gauge was in the middle which is OK. I stopped car and listened engine from outside on hot iddle - NO TICKING But once I increased rpms with gas pedal, it stardted to tick. But - ticking was "cycling" (as I mentioned before...), that means it ticks 15 times, and then disapear for 2-3 seconds. Then start again, 15-16 ticks, then disapear for 2-3 seconds again. After 5 minutes ticking disapeared completely
So I think there's no ticking when car is moving, because it's cooled by ambient air. It's ticking only when temperature exceeds nominal hot idle temperature. Maybe only few degrees over is enough to start ticking. That's why I didnt noticed it during winter - engine was cooled properly by cold ambient temperature.
That's good info for me, because it looks that car is healing itself Before, there was ticking also when engine temp was 50 degrees. Now it's ticking only when it exceeds nominal idle temp (I don't know how much it is - appr. 96 Celsius + - ?). I'll check it again after few months...
PS: I didn't change oil again...level is still the same and color is still like honey - also great finding

 

[Bernievarian]

Of course we check...

Do you claim that the ticking could be caused by metal shrinking ? If so it should also tick if you stop the engine (when hot). You could check the exact coolant temp with MES...

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

 

[Rado77]

Do you mean that I have to check this?:

1, turn off hot engine
2, manualy turn it through crank bolt and check if the ticking is there?

Regarding coolant - good idea also to check this. I have to buy new cable (old returned to my colleague). Service changed also water pump and new coolant water of course. But - engine was overheated by previous owner as I investigated before, and question is why? What was real cause of overheating, oil sludge under valve cover, wried exhaust manifold? Caused it water leak? Maybe yes, maybe no....But - coolant container is surprisingly clean for 6-years old car ! So maybe lost of coolant water caused overheating... Coolant water is clean, without garbage...but maybe... cooling system from inside is dirty on specific place(s) (maybe directly in head), and cooling is not so efficient as it should...and that causes that ticking during "overheating" because overheated head material is "moving more as it should"...it's just a thought. Maybe wrong, maybe not. But overal engine cooling is OK, radiator clean

 

[Bernievarian]

Do you mean that I have to check this?:

1, turn off hot engine
2, manualy turn it through crank bolt and check if the ticking is there?

No, just turn off hot engine and check immediately for metal retraction ticking ...

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

 

[Rado77]

OK, I'll do it, thx for explanation Bernie ;-)

 

[Rado77]

New info - engine on operational temp, idle. No ticking. But once I turned ON AC, fan starts to spin (OK), and ticking started. So once fan started to move hot air from exhaust manifold area to engine block, it starts ticking. After that I turned off AC, fan stopped and after some time ticking has gone So there is really only few degrees Celsia increase which causes that ticking It's crazy that few degrees can cause some very small material size change, which causes ticking... I love these puzzles
Yeah and yesterday I passed technical + emission tests ;-) But only thanks to this forum and my golden hands (fixed exhaust leaks, straighten wried exhaust manifold flange)

Now I'm just thinking....if hottest part of engine is exhaust manifold, maybe I can DIY some heat shield also behind manifold - between manifold and engine block. That could protect engine against hot air...or wrap ex man with some protective bandage?

 

[Detroitdiesel]

Good to see you passed passed technical + emission tests.

Isn't there a factory heat shield on the manifold of these engines (just a guess, I don't own one)
You could wrap the exhaust manifold in heat tape like they do on motorcycles. heat then gets passed on to later in the exhaust system instead of the front of the engine.

 

[Rado77]

Hi DD,

yes I have heat shield there, but it's mounted on front side of manifold. Shield is also hot and when air blows around it, it takes this heat and blows it directly on engine block on his left and right side. Problem will never happen I believe if exhaust will be mouted behind engine and not on the front side
But you said that using heat tape will cause that hot exhaust gases will "move" further in ex man...Now I'm not sure if it's good idea... because directly behind is catalyst...could that heat damage catalyst somehow? Or incorrect lambda measurement may occure? I never did experiments like this, so I cannot say if moving heat on CAT can cause some damage...

 

[Detroitdiesel]

It won't make a world of difference to the rest of the exhaust since the manifold would only dissipate a small amount of the heat anyway.

And we'll never know if heat wrapping the manifold is a good idea on the Grande Punto unless someone tries it and reports results:yum: