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Technical Front spring frustrations

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Technical Front spring frustrations

Wiltshire Chris

Wiltshire Chris

‍‍Accidental Barchetta owner
Parked in the garage Written a guide Uploaded a resource/download Written a review
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Jul 14, 2020
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433
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Location
Wiltshire
Just sharing my frustration with a hopefully sympathetic audience. I've finally got my back axle back in place with new springs, brake pipes, bearings etc and it it looks good, thank you to everyone who gave help and advice. The last MOT advisories from last year were for the knackered front springs so I'm on to that, starting with the driver side. My frustrations in order.
  1. Didn't have a deep 17mm socket for the pinch bolts, can't nip to Halfords as I'm self-isolating (see below) so ordered one from Amazon which arrived promptly
  2. Nuts on pinch bolts tight as f***. Finally get nuts fully unwound on both, bottom bolt is removed. Top bolt won't shift, stick nut on the end and attack with increasing weight of hammer rubber mallet->wooden mallet->hammer->4lb club hammer accepting that new bolts will probably be needed. No effort of mine will remove the thing.
  3. Sit back contemplating the problem and then notice split in inner CV boot, sigh and accept it's better I find it now.
  4. Lastly I really wanted to have the car MOT ready tonight as I'm to hospital tomororw for an angioplasty that means I'm not allowed to do anything strenuous for a while afterwards. I'll now be sitting (hopefully!) twiddling my thumbs desperate to get out to the garage to get things moving so the car can be back on the road for April.
I shall use this period of rest to order up some parts though. I will get four new pinch bolts as the state of the two I've seen is pretty horrific. Reading this thread https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/off-side-front-inner-drive-shaft-cv-boot.488962/ I'd like to follow @FiatFleetFamily and @s130 advice and get a new half shaft but mine is the side that J&R don't stock. I might as well order new front shock absorbers at the same time and get all the withering looks from my long suffering wife over with in one go.
Moan over, it helps just to write it all down sometimes!
 
Rusty Springs!

Last years MOT said the rear springs were rusty but no advisory. So I replaced with the shocks as one was very faintly misty but no advisory.

This year, last week the tester mentioned the front springs were rusty and were it not me would have plumped for an advisory. Did give an advisory on the driver's seat belt for a fluffy edge. I did point out to him when I got the car back that I had used fabric/nylon sealer which he had not noticed.

Anyway back to springs. I'm convinced that MOT testers are going OTT with rusty springs on older cars. It is a fact that more modern cars have had broken or dangerous springs before they are 5 years old. So springs have become a "hot attention topic". Our 34 year old 130TC still has the original springs. My previous Fiats and 15+ years never have spring issue. Our 2005 "B" has never had a broken spring.

The testers just see rust. Do they actually test/check depth of penetration/erosion/pitting? I don't think they really do.

Getting a 130TC through MOT emissions testing is a big challenge. The official factory CO setting for those two 40s side draught carbs is over the MOT limit. You have to seriously lean the mixture off and that just kills the engine. Can't wait (if I'm still alive) for when she become MOT exempt! :)
 
Good luck with your surgery Chris. I had a stent fitted last September and although it is quite a simple operation, you are not allowed to drive for a week after it. Also, if they put you on as many tablets as I am on, you will get tired very easily.

Be careful and don’t overdo things, the car can wait.
 
LeftyGreg said:
Good luck with your surgery Chris. I had a stent fitted last September and although it is quite a simple operation, you are not allowed to drive for a week after it. Also, if they put you on as many tablets as I am on, you will get tired very easily.

Be careful and don’t overdo things, the car can wait.
Click to expand...
Thanks Greg. The op went well, I'm sorry that yours has left you getting tired easily, I'm hoping mine will give me a bit more energy but time will tell.
 
s130 said:
A stent is a bit like a Coil Spring :) Definitely "on topic". Hope you recover quickly.
Click to expand...
Haha, I’ve been recovering since September and all is going well, but due back into hospital for a bypass soon. (I won’t bore everybody about it)

Hope you get to sort the springs out soon. I did my front struts earlier in the year and didn’t have any problems getting the springs off. The tricky part was getting the bottom bolts of the struts undone!
 
LeftyGreg said:
Hope you get to sort the springs out soon. I did my front struts earlier in the year and didn’t have any problems getting the springs off. The tricky part was getting the bottom bolts of the struts undone!
Click to expand...
Yes, that is where I'm stuck, both the nuts are off but one of the bolts won't budge. I'm going to add a note to the guide suggesting that you might consider ordering new pinch bolts when you do the front shocks/springs as mine were a right mess and me hitting them with a hammer won't have improved them.

Good luck with the bypass when it happens.
s130 said:
A stent is a bit like a Coil Spring :) Definitely "on topic". Hope you recover quickly.
Click to expand...
Very good, thank you. So far so good, I've been enroled in an app to coach me through recovery and getting me doing stretches and breathing exercises. I'm trying to keep out of the garage as the temptation to just have a little go at the stuck bolt is great but I must play the long game.
 
Wiltshire Chris said:
Yes, that is where I'm stuck, both the nuts are off but one of the bolts won't budge. I'm going to add a note to the guide suggesting that you might consider ordering new pinch bolts when you do the front shocks/springs as mine were a right mess and me hitting them with a hammer won't have improved them.
Click to expand...
That was exactly my problem, drivers side, both bolts came out easily, but the lower one on the passenger side didn’t want to come out. It took a few hours of frustration and trying anything I could think of and eventually, it slowly moved

i already had new bolts to go back in, so putting it all back together was easy
 
When I put bolts and nuts back together I smear then in black moly grease to ensure they never rust/bind back up again. For the struts you just have to keep the hub and strut pinch faces grease free. Also I always "pre-load" the hub so that it is at the limit off loaded travel in terms of slop/movement before the pinch bolts are done up. However this can affect the tracking depending on how much play/slop is present and they were last assembled with the hub hanging free.
 
s130 said:
When I put bolts and nuts back together I smear then in black moly grease to ensure they never rust/bind back up again. For the struts you just have to keep the hub and strut pinch faces grease free. Also I always "pre-load" the hub so that it is at the limit off loaded travel in terms of slop/movement before the pinch bolts are done up. However this can affect the tracking depending on how much play/slop is present and they were last assembled with the hub hanging free.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you posted this as I had memories of reading a similar post of yours about loading the hub but couldn't find on my initial search. As this is all new to me can I ask how you'd do that? Is it a case of getting a jack under the hub and lifting it to simulate the loading? I'm not too worried about the tracking as I changed one of the track rod ends last year without getting the tracking done so that is on the to-do list once the MOT is sorted.
 
I just put a wood block under the disc (for vented), or the central boss (vented or not vented)) and lower the jack just a little to cause some weight to be transferred to lift the hub up. Probably only about 20lbs is required. If the car is on stands then just use the jack and a block to lift the hub assembly up.
 
Right, recovery going well thank goodness, so I'm back out in the garage again. Pinch bolts persuaded free and shock absorber removed. Can I ask two questions, apologies if the first is a bit naive but, as ever, I'm on new territory for me.

How do I know if a shock absorber is worn now that I've got it off the car? I should probably get new ones anyway rather than just do the springs but the Barchetta budget has taken a bit of a hammering over the winter so if the current ones are OK then I might try to dodge it for another year

Secondly, I was inattentive when I dismantled the top part. The metal plate that retains the ball bearings has a flat cut out of it, does this have to sit in any particular position? I'm assuming that some greasing of the ball bearings would be appropriate?

Thanks as ever
1647901005269.png
 
Glad all went well and recovery is on plan

When I did mine, the old ones were basically like a bicycle pump, there was no dampening, when I pushed them down, theY went easily and stopped moving once I stopped pushing them

The new ones had a different feel with more resistance and when I stopped pushing, they started to move back slightly before stopping.

Sorry, can’t help with the orientation of the top plates, I think I had the same issue, but, as I did them one at a time, I had the other one to refer to. My memory isn’t good enough to remember from last June!
 
LeftyGreg said:
My memory isn’t good enough to remember from last June
Click to expand...
:) I struggle with last week at times.

There's definitely some resistance when I push down and they then push back slowly as you describe so they're probably going to go back on for now. At least having done it once and using black moly as @s130 suggested then it should be easier next time.
 
All the shock absorber parts are being cleaned up. I counted 42 ball bearings which my cheap import caliper tells me are 5.97mm in diameter, all safely stored in a box for now.

I now turn to the drive shaft boot cover. Instructions seem straightforward enough. However one of the steps is to remove the ABS sensor. I strongly suspect that I won't be able to get it out. I think that leaves me with two choices:
  1. Unclip as much of the ABS sensor wire as I can and hope there's enough slack that I can drop the drive shaft to the floor and switch the boot there. Or
  2. Cut the sensor wire and reconnect it by soldering and heat shrink or using a connector. Ideally cutting it inside the engine bay would probably give it more protection from the elements.
Nothing is ever easy is it? At least it keeps the brain ticking
 
Wiltshire Chris said:
All the shock absorber parts are being cleaned up. I counted 42 ball bearings which my cheap import caliper tells me are 5.97mm in diameter, all safely stored in a box for now.

I now turn to the drive shaft boot cover. Instructions seem straightforward enough. However one of the steps is to remove the ABS sensor. I strongly suspect that I won't be able to get it out. I think that leaves me with two choices:
  1. Unclip as much of the ABS sensor wire as I can and hope there's enough slack that I can drop the drive shaft to the floor and switch the boot there. Or
  2. Cut the sensor wire and reconnect it by soldering and heat shrink or using a connector. Ideally cutting it inside the engine bay would probably give it more protection from the elements.
Nothing is ever easy is it? At least it keeps the brain ticking
Click to expand...
Or get the ones that are split and you glue them together. That’s what I did and it was relatively easy
 
LeftyGreg said:
Or get the ones that are split and you glue them together. That’s what I did and it was relatively easy
Click to expand...
Did you do both the inners and outers? I'm worried that access to the inners is tricky so wouldn't be able to get a good glued joint. Having said that I currently can't budge the hex bolts that hold the flange in place
 
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