General Fire/No Fire

[Nacho]

Hi all,
I know I should not have to ask this question if I were a true Panda Genius, but I am not exactly sure what the difference is between the Fire engine and the Non-Fire engine. A friend of mine is looking to by a 750L that I am sure has a Fire engine for 200 Euro. Other then the Exhaust being on the front and the distributor being on the right side, what is the main difference between the two. Is there a difference in power, or reliability. Also this is not the same subject, but I saw a Panda 33 in the junk yard and it had a crazy looking 2cyl engine in it. Plus I found a junkyard that has about 10 Pandas in it and the owners seem like good people to deal with. Sort of got off topic there, but it was a good day.
Nacho

 

[John H]

I don't know all the variants, but regarding the "FIRE" engine - provided it is looked after* will run for 100,000s of Kms.

It has a bit of a weakness with cylinder head gaskets, which isn't helped by leaving the same coolant in forever - as the corrosion inhibitors stop working after a few years.

However, you need to be really careful the cooling system has no air in it after a change of coolant - because it will damage the head gasket

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


The 2 cylinder engine is probably also found in the 126 - the Panda version has a better clyinder head:
the 126 brigade usually search them out.

End of my limited knowledge..


John H

*regular oil and filter changes (6 month/or maybe 10,000 km - whichever is first)

 

[Martiny10]

The FIRE engines had fewer parts and were lighter than the engines they replaced. They were also slightly more powerful for a given engine size.

I don't think they were any more reliable/un reliable, the main motivation for their design and production was cost. The engines could be made using more automated methods and used less parts so the material cost was lower.

Same applies to later gear boxes as well, built using the same methodology, though post '92 gear boxes attached to FIRE engines are alleged to be a massive improvement in terms of smoothness. I don't know for sure since I've never driven a post 1990 FIAT for long enough to find out.

Besides, I like the way no else can drive my car without crunching the gears.

Fix It Again Tony!
Would swap for X19, Montecarlo Spider or GT.i.e in average/poor condition! Scottish based would be nice.

 

[Enzo]

I think the gap between the old pushrod and the "newer" FIRE units is evident...first of all you don't hear the unpleasant ticking noise from the timing chain...then you probably won't ever need to adjust the valves' play on a FIRE, while the pushrod type is prone to "misregulation" after a few thousands of km!The fuel consumption?I had the specific consumption diagrams for both the 903cc and 999cc engines, and the 2nd one is undoubtely cheaper to run...on the pushrod unit the intake manifold and the head are a one-piece stuff...

Panda 33:a rare beast as it's a tuned "30" model by Giannini...a well known tuner which liked to work on the old 500s and 126s!


<--Ihihih!

 

[Enzo]

I think the gap between the old pushrod and the "newer" FIRE units is evident...first of all you don't hear the unpleasant ticking noise from the timing chain...then you probably won't ever need to adjust the valves' play on a FIRE, while the pushrod type is prone to "misregulation" after a few thousands of km!The fuel consumption?I had the specific consumption diagrams for both the 903cc and 999cc engines, and the 2nd one is undoubtely cheaper to run...on the pushrod unit the intake manifold and the head are a one-piece stuff...

Panda 33:a rare beast as it's a tuned "30" model by Giannini...a well known tuner which liked to work on the old 500s and 126s!


<--Ihihih!

 

[John H]

Originally posted by Martiny10

Same applies to later gear boxes as well, built using the same methodology, though post '92 gear boxes attached to FIRE engines are alleged to be a massive improvement in terms of smoothness. I don't know for sure since I've never driven a post 1990 FIAT for long enough to find out.

Besides, I like the way no else can drive my car without crunching the gears.

I've driven a little distance# in our "new" "M/94-95" Panda which we have as a replacement for the old CL - it has the new gearbox, and is relatively unused (40k miles).

It's currently different in use.

How it will be when it's had some regular use remains to be seen:
at the moment it's slightly knotchy and a bit obstructive, but has a full set of working synchros - and a lot less noise, with the exception of a slight whine on the over-run in third.

By contrast, the older gearboxes IME can be delightfully light and easy to use - when they've been used sympathetically for a while.
However, all the old gearboxes have been difficult to select when we first got them, but they improved greatly with careful* use, some oil on the linkage joints, and a change of oil.
In addition to these features, they seem to have virtually no synchromesh on higher ratios.

Our old CLX also makes some awful gear whining noises in the lower ratios. (as does Jaffs - but ISTR his has 110K miles on the clock)

Regards


John H

# perhaps 100 miles over a number of medium length trips: unlikely to get much more, as it isn't "mine", and doesn't live here.

* timing, and just enough pressure to make it select when it's ready to go in.

 

[Nacho]

So, is there physical differences in the engine. What actually gives the engine the fire name. I can see that the engine looks aluminum at least the head and cover. Also the distributor is on the right side sticking out. Is the cam different on the fire then the non fire. It appears to drive differently by the way the timing system is. What do all of you think is the different in the two. Also you say there is a maybe power difference in the fire. How much is the difference or is it about 1hp.

 

[John H]

AFAIK the name of the engine is

Fully
Integrated
Robotised
Engine.

Initial letters spell FIRE.

Iron/steel block.
Alloy cylinder head.
Overhead camshaft (which also drives the distributor).

Although they may be rated at 30, or 45 BHP, depending on capacity, they have a lot of torque at low engine speed:
this makes them nice/easy to drive - not forever changing gear to keep it in the power band.