General Enlightning . . .

[lazylobster]

Another quick and easy upgrade I'll be doing this weekend. Plug n pray LED headlight bulbs.

Kick out about 6000lm, compared to 1200 ish for standard halogen. Will take some before and after amp measurements to see what the reduction in the draw is.

They have a small adapter fitted to ensure they fit the P45 style socket on the headlight. And plug into existing wiring. No relay / transformer required.

will report back.
R

 

[The Whitakers]

Got a link?

 

[lazylobster]

Hi, I will fit first and see how they pan out. If all good, will advise where from. I would not wish to push a product without some prior testing ;-)

Please bear with me.


R

 

[lazylobster]

However. I've started the fit (but run out of time) But I did take some amp readings on the ol meter

The test was done using only 1 headlight bulb plugged in for both the existing P45 and the new LED unit.

Readings are:



So the LEDs draw nearly less than half current on dip and less than half on full beam. Happy with that. Interesting to note that the LED dip draws more than the full. This is down to 6 LEDS being used for the dip and 4 for the main beam on the unit.


Now I need to fit and ensure the pattern is good.


R

 

[the hobbler]

Morning Rob;
How did the LED light conversion pan out---do you recommend the kit, or, are we to 'leave it alone'?

 

[lazylobster]

Hi Tom, this is still on the agenda. I'm just waiting for some new headlight clips to turn up

I drove Valentina for the first time at night last Satruday. Bit of unlit motorway driving. Must say the original lights are pretty poor. So will be intersting to see the result.

I did note that with the dip beams on, the voltmeter was only showing 13v and not 14v when the lights are off. So the old dymanio was working hard.


Will keep y'all posted!

Cheers
Rob

 

[lazylobster]

Ok, so fitted and I’m happy. Good patten and very very bright.

Not a cheap ebay job, these came from Classic car leds. Properly marked and supported etc.

Links as below for the bulb and the P45 to H4 adapter that is also required.

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/pr...t-h4-bulb-adapter?_pos=2&_sid=eed90a68b&_ss=r

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/pr...15&_sid=eed90a68b&_ss=r&variant=8299353243743

I’ve negotiated a discount, use code “valentina5” at check out #ad

cheers
Rob


.

 

[fiat500]

Very good and great negotiation, but sold out.

 

[g8rpi]

It has to be said....
These LED "bulbs" are ILLEGAL for use on the road. The only required external light were you can replace a filament bulb with an LED is the reversing light. All other lamps and replaceable bulbs must be E marked and approved. Even if the originals were pre E marking, any replacement must be compliant. It is impossible to E mark a LED replacement for a filament bulb because there is no standard to approve it to.
If your classic can take a sealed beam unit you CAN fit a LED sealed beam replacement as long as it is E marked. These are OK becausethey are approved approved as a complete lamp (source, reflector and lens).
I note the claim CE compliance. This is wrong because A/ They are components and components are not covered by CE marking. and B/ They are for automotive use which is also excluded from CE because they have their own regulations.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[lazylobster]

Evening Robert and thanks for the feedback. I’ll pass on your comments to the company.

Addendum. Buyer buys at their own risk. Respecting the law of the land etc.

Saying that, I’m happy to accept the risk to use these bulbs. Mind you, I’ve only driven my 500 once at night over the last two years of ownership. The original bulbs were shocking in terms of brightness and represent a greater risk than this option ( personal choice and opinion)

Peter, typical! I’m sure new stock will be fourth coming at some stage.

Cheers
Rob

 

[g8rpi]

Hi Rob,
Glad you took this as intended, I just want owners to make informed decisions about their modifications. Its a personal choice to make am modification that may not comply with the letter of the law. I think it is misleading of this supplier to repeatedly mention CE approval as many buyers will not fully understand the difference between this and the ECE approval required for car lamps.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[g8rpi]

So I asked the question of Classic Car LEDs and got a comprehensive reply

hank you for your email.


The question of LED upgrades and legality, particularly headlights, is a complex issue which is not made any clearer by the fact the regulations stem from the RVLA.



Generally LED conversions are not 100% road legal for external bulbs, though ours all show the correct output and beam patterns (which many don't) so are not normally picked up by MOT testing and don't give glare to other road users. Many insurers are now becoming tolerant of them though and allowing the use of good quality LEDs such as ours, particularly on classics, as they are CE marked and they see them as a big safety improvement. Changing to LED for external lighting is a vehicle modification that you need to advise your insurer of as with any other modification from factory specification.



The changes made in May 2018 to UK MOT law banned HID conversion for headlamps and some inspectors are treating this as LED too though many customers are reporting passes since the change was made. We will not guarantee a pass though as the pass is at the discretion of the examiner. Other fittings such as sidelights, brake lights and indicators may be OK for MOT purposes but again this is at the discretion of the examiner.



The Road Vehicle Lighting Act (RVLA) gives some exemption to vehicles of certain ages but as the act does not specifically mention LEDs it cannot be inferred by their absence that they are legal for road use. As a result we are cautious and sell all our external LEDs on the basis of "Off Road Use" only.




It's a grey area between safety and legality that we leave to customer choice. Our Terms and Conditions which are linked to on every page on our website and email footer cover this. Internal LED conversions are 100% legal and are not covered by the RVLA.





External LED conversion is an area where the law has not kept pace with technology and there are many industry members lobbying for this to be changed. However there is the battle with the large vehicle manufacturers and the influence they have with the authorities due to tax revenues, who do not like their vehicles being open to the aftermarket. At present, and we believe unfairly, LEDs, to gain homologation, need to be approved in every single light unit they could be fitted to. As you can imagine, this is an impossible task.





The wattage referred to in the RVLA actually refers to the light output, not the load. It's another reason the legislation needs to be revisited and updated as it is seriously behind where the industry is with technology.





We've been looking at this for a couple of years. The result of our research and correspondence received from a number of sources is as follows:





LEDs used for headlamps as LED modules for example, are always approved in combination with the complete headlamp (Regulations Nos. 112, 113 and 123). According to the Department of Transport (DfT), the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 do not mention more recent developments in alternative light sources at all, such as HIDs (or LEDs) and, according to the DfT, this means that, strictly, such light sources are not allowed under British law. Many people presume that, because something is not mentioned, it is allowed, which is incorrect. The date exemptions shown in Schedule 4 only apply to technology that was available at that time, being filament bulbs.





We've also checked with United Nations Economic Commission for Europe and they have advised that no type approval currently exists for any LED module in the EU despite what is claimed by some as mentioned above. There are working groups within UNECE looking at retrofit LEDs but no decisions have yet been made.



The E mark approval shown on many units coming out of Asia often only grants type approval to that particular LED bulb in accordance with UN Regulation No.10 Uniform provisions concerning the approval of vehicles with regard to electromagnetic compatibility. IDIADA concluded that the LED bulb does not cause electromagnetic interference and granted the type approval accordingly, with the marking R10-05, i.e. UN Regulation No.10, revision 5 (latest version). This does not make it road legal but is just an E Mark to state it will not cause electromagnetic interference. To ascertain what the E mark is for, you need to ask for the certificate of approval which will state the section of the regulations that the unit is approved under. In a lot of cases they will not provide it.





As far as we are aware, this is the full legal position for external vehicle LEDs which is why we state "off road use only". We are continuing to find an approval route but it will not be quick unless the various bodies decide to look carefully at the excellent products now available and the fact that the beam patterns and lighting are often better than older filament fittings and provide a safer motoring experience.





Please let us know if you need more detail?





Kind regards





Duncan




Duncan Rickards

www.classiccarleds.co.uk


The only thing they didn't answer was what CE regulations they comply with. I'm quessing they are "compliant" becuse components are excluded from CE marking.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[lazylobster]

Good follow up Robert and interesting commentary.

End of the day, down to the individual to ascertain their preference and position with regards to fitting. For me, it’s a no brainer due to the advantages.

cheers
Rob

 

[fiat500]

Good follow up Robert and interesting commentary.

End of the day, down to the individual to ascertain their preference and position with regards to fitting. For me, it’s a no brainer due to the advantages.

Agreed....very diligent follow-up by Robert and excellent response from the supplier concerned.

When used in the Fiat 500 headlight units, as long as the bulbs do not dazzle oncoming traffic, (as can presumably identified by checking the shape of the beam) I think you would have to be very unlucky ever to suffer any legal penalty for using them.

Even if you insist on an MOT for your car you could be cynical and edge your bet by re-fitting standard bulbs for the duration of the test.

 

[wmevius]

Discount code was still valid - ordered a pair