Technical Emission g/km

[1guignol]

Hello fellow 500 aficionado,
My parking pass is about to expire and the council is adamant that my 500L 1971 emission is over 100g/km so it doesn't qualify for the reduce greener tariff. I may be completely wrong and my poor 500cc is a dirty gas guzzler.

Any idea where I can find emission data or thread, reports,... Pretty much anything that would help change their mind?
Cheers!

 

[chris3234]

Personally wasn't aware that cars of this sort of age had any sort of accurate emissions information?

 

[1guignol]

You are correct, there is nothing official that I can find. But maybe, maybe, someone, somewhere made some test. One can dream

 

[fiat500]

Hello fellow 500 aficionado,
My parking pass is about to expire and the council is adamant that my 500L 1971 emission is over 100g/km so it doesn't qualify for the reduce greener tariff. I may be completely wrong and my poor 500cc is a dirty gas guzzler.

Any idea where I can find emission data or thread, reports,... Pretty much anything that would help change their mind?
Cheers!

Axel Gerstl sell a catalytic converter system with lambda sensor. It seems that in Deutschland, the car isn't exempt from emissions testing. In their FAQ which can be found here:

https://webshop.fiat500126.com/sites/57/exklusiv_g-kat

they suggest that before fitting the system the emissions will be "70/220", but there isn't an indicator of what these figures describe.

Can you not argue a special case since by running your car you are saving the world from another car having to be made and the emission that would come from manufacture?

 

[giardini]

You still have the blessed options of "pay to park" and "pay to drive" if I understand correctly.
A sizable part of the city of Antwerp is now a "green zone".
I just checked my '71 Giardiniera's status online, it's "Euro 0". Very flattering.
No entry. One-day pass is 35 Euro. Shape of things to come. :dead:& green.

BTW, 70/220 is a European directive blah blah blah, not a measure of anything.

 

[fiat500]

If you have the current MOT, you may have had emissions tested, although technically the car is exempt from measurement. But you could ask a garage to test it anyway and extrapolate the readings to give the g/km. However I fear it would be money wasted as the standards for modern cars are so exacting.

 

[giardini]

Fiat500, in my case I have a choice of MOT (here, CT) or no MOT, regular reg. or "ancestor reg.". I am regular, no tax gain for 500cc !
Whatever they could measure at CT won't change the car's emission status.
"Burocratese" has no linguistic conversational value, one agency can't even talk to another, just issue directives... :worship:

 

[1guignol]

Well the MOT for this year is fresh off the press and the measurement reads "N/A"
I tried to explain them that it was so low they can't even measure it but the bureaucrats were not convinced. Not a number so no good....

 

[El cargador]

There will come a day when we are filling up the fuel tanks with mountain dew and stuffing lettuce leaves up our arses

 

[fiat500]

There will come a day when we are filling up the fuel tanks with mountain dew and stuffing lettuce leaves up our arses

Does everyone not do the latter already?

 

[F123C]

There are different exhaust emissions that can be measured.

The one that is frequently quoted (and used to punish us) is CO2 (aka Carbon Dioxide and harmless to humans - it's even used to carbonate drinks! plus humans and animals exhale c. 4% more CO2 than inhaled!!).

OP's mention of 100g/100km sounds like a CO2 figure.
What's important to keep in mind is that this is directly related to fuel consumption. So e.g. a car that does 60mpg emits exactly twice as much CO2 as a car that does 30mpg (or the equivalent in litres/km or l/100km, there are conversion factors available if required).

So how do you find the CO2 figures in g/km for an old car such as a Fiat 500?, when there were no such figures released back in the day?

Find a combined/overall figure for mpg of a Fiat 500 from the manufacturer or reputable contemporary road tests e.g. 'The Autocar' magazine.

Now find a modern car which has the same combined/overall mpg figure. This car, having the same mpg, will have a certain CO2 figure. This is the figure that should be applied to the 500 and quoted with the above reasons to the b*********s, I mean officials..... Ask them to prove otherwise!!!!

There's also various other exhaust emissions that can be measured - CO (aka Carbon Monoxide, not good for humans and can be deadly in sufficient concentration.), unburnt hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides etc. These emissions can be high on older cars running on carburettors, which is why fuel injection was introduced quickly followed by catalytic converters and lambda sensors to provide a feedback loop to quickly adjust the fuel-air ratio to control emissions. Don't mention these other emissions to officials....

AL.

 

[jrkitching]

Hello fellow 500 aficionado,
My parking pass is about to expire and the council is adamant that my 500L 1971 emission is over 100g/km so it doesn't qualify for the reduce greener tariff. I may be completely wrong and my poor 500cc is a dirty gas guzzler.

Any idea where I can find emission data or thread, reports,... Pretty much anything that would help change their mind?
Cheers!

Which Council?

A 1971 car won't have official emissions data, but may (or may not) benefit from having heritage vehicle status. It all depends on the policy of your council.

I'd be extremely surprised if there's anything else you can do by way of having the car independently assessed. Even if you could, I'd be astounded if a 1971 fiat 500 could get under the 100g/km threshold; you'd need fuel economy figures in the order of 70mpg+ to achieve that. I wouldn't describe a classic 500 as a gas guzzler, but no car from that era is going to have the economy of a modern small city car (at least not on paper).

The tricks needed to achieve 99g/km on an official test are considerable. In terms of other exhaust pollutants, any non-cat car of that era will be off the scale by modern standards.

We are fortunate in the UK that use of historic vehicles is generally well tolerated by the powers that be; they are exempt from many of the regulations applying to modern cars and there are few restrictions on their use compared to other european countries.