Technical DPF REGEN INDICATOR CIRCUIT

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Technical DPF REGEN INDICATOR CIRCUIT

deejays

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DPF REGEN INDICATOR

This one is for the Tech-heads. I know some of you will be keenly interested in this, so a big hello to the four of you! 😉 For everyone else, if you feel your eyes beginning to glaze over – well, there is no shame... 😊

For me, one of the bugbears of the Ducato is the lack of any indication that a DPF REGEN is underway. Knowing that information would enable the vehicle to be driven in the most suitable manner to ensure an efficient, complete and uninterrupted regeneration cycle. Apart from that, at the very least I would know it was occurring.

The cost of a DPF replacement, and/or a forced regen is, for me, the main thing to try and avoid. Just a simple indicator would suffice.

So, with multimeter, scan tool and calculator in hand the following circuit was designed, built and successfully tested.

But first, a note of warning. This is not an instructional “how to”, but a “how I did it”.

If you decide to attempt what I am describing, then you do so at your own risk and the responsibility of any issues arising belongs wholly with you and not me.

First, I had to measure the characteristics of the NTC DPF temperature sensor. This was done under actual operating conditions and recorded with my AUTEL scan tool. From the measurements it was apparent that the ECM has a 1k pull up resistor to a +5V rail and from that the impedance of the sensor could also be calculated across the range. The resultant Temperature/Voltage response curve is of the DPF temperature sensor in my 2018 Euro 6B,150HP, 2,3L Ducato.

During normal operating conditions on the open highway the DPF temperature could reach a maximum of 510 C passively (not in regen mode), so the design trigger point must be above that. Considering the curve is very flat at high temperatures and the change in signal is very small, I chose 530 C (0.544V) as the trigger point, which provides enough safety margin to be a reliable indicator of the DPF regen which is more than 600 C (approx. 650 C max).

The photographs show the mounting location of the circuit, 12V supply point, earth and signal pickup, and the LED indicator. Due to the small signal variation, the earth point was critical and was chosen as near to the ECM reference as conveniently possible. To avoid an earth loop and introducing any signal errors only the “hot” side of the temperature sensor was connected to the indicator circuit, the earth already referenced by the prior earth point at the ECM. To safeguard against any possible induced signals, a shielded cable was used for the signal pickup, with the outer braid earthed at the indicator circuit board only. A single wire fed through the firewall to drive the LED inside the cabin, the earth for the LED picked up from inside the cabin, again to avoid any introduced voltage drop on the sensor earth circuit. The +12V supply point provided by inserting a fuse tap at F15 in the under-bonnet fuse location point. This fuse is the designated supply for the 12V dashboard outlet (Cig-Lighter socket).

For the initial test, I placed a temporary 18k resistor in parallel with the designed 18k resistor, which produced a switching point at around 390 C so the correct operation of the circuit could be observed during normal open highway driving.

After that, the circuit as designed was then tested under normal road conditions with a scan tool connected to confirm the LED illuminated at the beginning of a normal DPF REGEN and stayed on for the complete REGEN cycle. All worked as planned, and no interference observed to the existing FIAT system. A post-test scan for any vehicle faults proved negative.

The circuit is very simple, employing a LM358 op-amp configured as an open loop comparator and LED driver. The 78L05 provides the +5v regulated supply. The 10mm LED has a nominal brightness of 270mcd at 20mA and is driven with 12 mA in this circuit, providing ample brightness without glare. The Jaycar part number for the LED is ZD0203.

Further photographs show extra details and information.
 

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THank you , most interesting / useful, whether i get of my xxxx and do it is another quesrion. I was thinking its going to be too much grief to acces the wires at the dpf then you proved me wrong as i contiued to read (eventualy remembered your photo previously). is the LPEGER Temp sensor also readily accessable. Forgive me if ive asked before its been a long night im ready for bed.
 
THank you , most interesting / useful, whether i get of my xxxx and do it is another quesrion. I was thinking its going to be too much grief to acces the wires at the dpf then you proved me wrong as i contiued to read (eventualy remembered your photo previously). is the LPEGER Temp sensor also readily accessable. Forgive me if ive asked before its been a long night im ready for bed.
Thanks, I have not looked for that sensor cabling, but I will see what I can find. Sweet dreams... UPDATE: I had a quick look - Will require removing the cabin air inlet cowling to get a clear view (or the battery box), but the cowl would be the easiest. Perhaps you might want to do that at your leisure one day @theoneandonly. At present time I have no burning need to do that - but I understand your reasons why you would like an easy path to that sensor.
 
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Excellent work! For most people I would think sticking a cheap Bluetooth adapter in the OBD port and running Kapron-ap's 'DPF Monitor' app is probably a more simple route though.
 

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@Steve928 ,I didn't think it tells you when a regen is actually ocurring (not when i looked at it a few years back). You can record it with MES a bit of a faff for each journey but will give raw data to calculate whatever you want rather than the data provided by Fiat as spewed out by Kapron MES and Alfaobd. The signal created by @deejays method could also be captured by an arduino/ SD card and again be manipulated stored. But then again a cheap Bluetooth adapter in the OBD port and running an ap may be what happens the most.
 
Another point I learnt from a retired Fiat Motor Home mechanic related to DPF issues is the pressure sensor is a common problem on them.
Yes it was very common on the x250 but less so with the x290. the sensor was low down near the wheel arch and very susceptible to condensation and water blocking pipes /destroying sensor. The x290 is high up on the firewall.
 
Excellent work! For most people I would think sticking a cheap Bluetooth adapter in the OBD port and running Kapron-ap's 'DPF Monitor' app is probably a more simple route though.
Of course @Steve928 , just as I could have used my AUTEL scan tool, or MES - of which I have both. But that is rather missing the point. The design brief was such:
. Provide a permanent background monitor.
. Not be permanently connected to the OBD port.
. Be inobtrusive and not require continuous or regular monitoring.
. Provide an instant, unmissable indication of the event.
. Not consume the tablet holder space as it is used for many other functions - in particular mapping/navigation etc.
. Draw no current except for when the ignition key is on.
. Draw minimal current when monitoring (4mA monitoring, 18mA with LED on).
. Be benign in operation or failure of active components.
 
@Steve928 ,I didn't think it tells you when a regen is actually ocurring (not when i looked at it a few years back).

Yes it does, you get an audible alert that a regen has started. Although at that point of course, as the 'clog level' approaches 100% , I'm watching the app anyway and waiting for the DPF temperature to be raised to the expected level.
 
DPF REGEN INDICATOR

This one is for the Tech-heads. I know some of you will be keenly interested in this, so a big hello to the four of you! 😉 For everyone else, if you feel your eyes beginning to glaze over – well, there is no shame... 😊

For me, one of the bugbears of the Ducato is the lack of any indication that a DPF REGEN is underway. Knowing that information would enable the vehicle to be driven in the most suitable manner to ensure an efficient, complete and uninterrupted regeneration cycle. Apart from that, at the very least I would know it was occurring.

The cost of a DPF replacement, and/or a forced regen is, for me, the main thing to try and avoid. Just a simple indicator would suffice.

So, with multimeter, scan tool and calculator in hand the following circuit was designed, built and successfully tested.

But first, a note of warning. This is not an instructional “how to”, but a “how I did it”.

If you decide to attempt what I am describing, then you do so at your own risk and the responsibility of any issues arising belongs wholly with you and not me.

First, I had to measure the characteristics of the NTC DPF temperature sensor. This was done under actual operating conditions and recorded with my AUTEL scan tool. From the measurements it was apparent that the ECM has a 1k pull up resistor to a +5V rail and from that the impedance of the sensor could also be calculated across the range. The resultant Temperature/Voltage response curve is of the DPF temperature sensor in my 2018 Euro 6B,150HP, 2,3L Ducato.

During normal operating conditions on the open highway the DPF temperature could reach a maximum of 510 C passively (not in regen mode), so the design trigger point must be above that. Considering the curve is very flat at high temperatures and the change in signal is very small, I chose 530 C (0.544V) as the trigger point, which provides enough safety margin to be a reliable indicator of the DPF regen which is more than 600 C (approx. 650 C max).

The photographs show the mounting location of the circuit, 12V supply point, earth and signal pickup, and the LED indicator. Due to the small signal variation, the earth point was critical and was chosen as near to the ECM reference as conveniently possible. To avoid an earth loop and introducing any signal errors only the “hot” side of the temperature sensor was connected to the indicator circuit, the earth already referenced by the prior earth point at the ECM. To safeguard against any possible induced signals, a shielded cable was used for the signal pickup, with the outer braid earthed at the indicator circuit board only. A single wire fed through the firewall to drive the LED inside the cabin, the earth for the LED picked up from inside the cabin, again to avoid any introduced voltage drop on the sensor earth circuit. The +12V supply point provided by inserting a fuse tap at F15 in the under-bonnet fuse location point. This fuse is the designated supply for the 12V dashboard outlet (Cig-Lighter socket).

For the initial test, I placed a temporary 18k resistor in parallel with the designed 18k resistor, which produced a switching point at around 390 C so the correct operation of the circuit could be observed during normal open highway driving.

After that, the circuit as designed was then tested under normal road conditions with a scan tool connected to confirm the LED illuminated at the beginning of a normal DPF REGEN and stayed on for the complete REGEN cycle. All worked as planned, and no interference observed to the existing FIAT system. A post-test scan for any vehicle faults proved negative.

The circuit is very simple, employing a LM358 op-amp configured as an open loop comparator and LED driver. The 78L05 provides the +5v regulated supply. The 10mm LED has a nominal brightness of 270mcd at 20mA and is driven with 12 mA in this circuit, providing ample brightness without glare. The Jaycar part number for the LED is ZD0203.

Further photographs show extra details and information.

Nice idea and the LED could be used to better illuminate the speedo to make it easier to read.

Does MES show when a regen is taking place?
 
Does MES show when a regen is taking place?
Directly no but there is one PID that is non zero when regen is occuring . Its on my template 4 for that precise reason.
injection fuel quantity POST injection (for DPF regeneration)
from MES
Fuel quantity of indicated injection.
In the first generation of Multijet engines the main injection is divided into FIVE smaller injections (pilot, pre, main, after, post) to ensure complete efficient steady combustion within the cycle. The five injections are in the following order:
1. PILOT injection (for noise reduction)
2. PRE injection (for further noise reduction)
3. MAIN injection
4. AFTER injection (for soot/pollution reduction)
5. POST injection (for DPF regeneration)
 
Nice idea and the LED could be used to better illuminate the speedo to make it easier to read.

Does MES show when a regen is taking place?
Yesterday I placed a post about an electronic circuit I built and installed in my Fiat Ducato that would notify me when a DPF REGEN was taking place.

I would like to remove that post, but it seems, I cannot. To that end, I am replying to each response with the following:

The circuit is designed correctly, works perfectly and I will continue to use it in my vehicle. The reason I would like the post removed is because it is extremely critical how the circuit and its associated wiring is connected to and routed into the existing vehicle. It requires considerable experience, expertise and understanding of the principles involved.

In that post I included the following warning:

But first, a note of warning. This is not an instructional “how to”, but a “how I did it”.

If you decide to attempt what I am describing, then you do so at your own risk and the responsibility of any issues arising belongs wholly with you and not me.

That warning still holds, including for anyone who considers they may have the required expertise and qualifications to ensure that the normal operation of the vehicle is not affected.
 
I agree with @deejays .
It may be worth pointing out that advise, suggestions or opinions offered on Forum are just that.
Though given with the best intentions there will always be the opportunity for the inexperienced to misinterpret and have problems.
Maybe the term "errors and omissions excepted" should be included.;)
I would like to think the Forum is for a group of like minded friends who make suggestion for others, there is no obligation to listen too or accept those suggestions and whilst they may work in some cases, there is no guarantee that they would work for someone or something, maybe 1000s of miles away that we have never seen.
One would like to think a degree of commonsense would prevail, unlike the comic postcard I saw years ago where the person read the cooking instructions on a product that said "Stand in boiling water" and then took it literally" !!!!!;)
 
Yesterday I placed a post about an electronic circuit I built and installed in my Fiat Ducato that would notify me when a DPF REGEN was taking place.

I would like to remove that post, but it seems, I cannot. To that end, I am replying to each response with the following:

The circuit is designed correctly, works perfectly and I will continue to use it in my vehicle. The reason I would like the post removed is because it is extremely critical how the circuit and its associated wiring is connected to and routed into the existing vehicle. It requires considerable experience, expertise and understanding of the principles involved.

In that post I included the following warning:

But first, a note of warning. This is not an instructional “how to”, but a “how I did it”.

If you decide to attempt what I am describing, then you do so at your own risk and the responsibility of any issues arising belongs wholly with you and not me.

That warning still holds, including for anyone who considers they may have the required expertise and qualifications to ensure that the normal operation of the vehicle is not affected.

Don't worry, I intend to do everything through the odb2 port using PID codes.

Part of my response was meant in jest, on my 2017 the speedo is so hard to see any additional illumination would be a benefit.
 
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