General City switch "warning"

[kevingrove]

Hi,
Just a "let you all know".
I have just been to a local independant mechanic and I mentioned we own 2 fiats. A doblo and a punto. He had a MGF in for a steering column change (sensor gone, but you can't order just the sensor!)
Anyways, he goes on to tell me, he has changed 4 steering units on punto's recently because the EPAS (electric power assisted steering) motor had burned out.
The city switch on the punto (and on other models) allows the motor to draw more energy (voltage increased, or more current allowed?) when the switch is operated, and he thinks the motors cannot cope with this extra energy, so they burn out.
His advice was don't use the city switch unless you want a £900 repair bill, for a new column (because you can't order just the motor!).
Any comments on the validity of this very welcome!

 

[Ffoxy]

Electric PAS is the norm these days, problems are known about on all makes that use them. The City button only operates below 10Mph I believe so doesnt constantly draw current.

Personally I only switch mine on to show off by spinning the steering with my little finger...

No need for it really... its a gimmick, the normal assistance is just fine.

 

[rallycinq]

Ah, the 'girly' button.

I have an opinion that its lack of proper earthing that causes more problems than anything else.

That can lead to the current looking for any avenue to return.

Cheers

SPD

 

[carl6885]

Ah the dreaded City/Girlie button!!!

I recently bought a punto with intermittent loss of power steering - I was told at the time that this just needed an ecu reset! Oh they was wrong! But at that time I was gullable as I needed a car, why I was I dont understand I'd been ripped off before.

The sensor itself had gone!

So yeah I was told it would cost £600+ for a new column from Fiat with a 6 month warranty and fitting.

There was no way I was paying that for a car I had only paid £600 for 2 months ago.

So I searched the internet night after night till I found a better solution.

ECU-Testing.com (apologies if this breaks forum rules) are a company the recon and repair damaged units.

You can have the repair services for £150 where you send in your ECU and Motor and they will fix it if that is the problem or you can buy a reconed column with 2 year unlimited warranty for £225.

With this you can, if you are like me fit it yourself - its not as hard as some people make out. You do not need to align these ones as they are plug and play (according to the company)

or

You are look at £100 - £120 for a garage to fit if you can find one.

The choice is yours but you shouldn't have the same problem again as long as you dont overuse your city/girlie button as they have put in stronger components and tweaked the weaknesses.

 

[DaveMcT]

This is important stuff can we get it put into the FAQs section so we dont lose it.

 

[D4nny8oy]

Ah, the "CITY button kills your PAS quicker" myth.

Any FIAT Tech will tell you it's a load of tosh.

 

[carl6885]

Ah, the "CITY button kills your PAS quicker" myth.

Any FIAT Tech will tell you it's a load of tosh.

I had been told by 3 FIAT techs this was the case and by a number of other trusted meechanics.

But when you think about it it is logical that it would 'help' destroy the motor quicker. In the factory fitted columns the components were the run of mill cheap components which are ok for taking the power but not for long intervals.

When you use the CITY button it supplies more power to the PAS so when you leave this on or use it often it delivers a load that the standard components can not handle.

This was confirmed by FIAT as a known issue and by the technicians at the recon centre as they have advised only to use the CITY button if absolutely necessary even with their more durable components.

 

[PuntoSS]

Electric PAS is the norm these days, problems are known about on all makes that use them. The City button only operates below 10Mph I believe so doesnt constantly draw current.

Personally I only switch mine on to show off by spinning the steering with my little finger...

No need for it really... its a gimmick, the normal assistance is just fine.

I'm sure City operates under 30mph. That's what I was told anyway, I could be wrong, of course.

 

[FiatPuntoMad]

I'm sure City operates under 30mph. That's what I was told anyway, I could be wrong, of course.

I thought it was at 19mph ?

 

[carl6885]

I'm sure City operates under 30mph. That's what I was told anyway, I could be wrong, of course.

I was under the impression it was 30mph.

 

[Ffoxy]

I have one and it does nothing over 10Mph ffs does it really matter guys?

It is not functioning all the time.

Appreciate the thoughts on component choice though, that is the kind of failure extended pre-production testing should weed out. I guess if Fiat themselves actually admitted it rather than the friends of friends trusted Techs they would have a recall situation started... it could be a safety issue if the electric steering failed mid corner or the like... esp with a laydee driving.

 

[DaveMcT]

I'm often wrong but I believe the Panda underpinnings are used in the VW Fox, small Vauxhaul and Ford Ka. The Grande Punto sits under the Ford Fester and maybe the Corsa.
Maybe why they dont admit to a possible design *issue*.

 

[rallycinq]

The GP is a joint venture with GM so shares its underpinnings with Corsa D.

Panda begat 500 which is a joint venture with Ford so shares underpinnings with new Ka.

Cheers

SPD

 

[Nickmitbm]

I think it works until 50 kph.About the issue , I think it's kind of a stupid thought..
Why would they put a feature that overloads the electric motor and burns it??That sounds crazy!!!It's not built by an amateur , it's an indutry's job!If the motor blew due to the city button , they would have put a stronger one , or decreased the power it gets!+It wouldn't be the most popular choice from todays manufacturers!(FIAT and a lot of other brands)

 

[D4nny8oy]

This was confirmed by FIAT as a known issue

Not in any Technical bulletins, nor 'word of mouth' from the TESEO Field Engineers who are privy to more info than the DET's.

In any case, I'd expect a large note in the owner's manual stating that CITY "is to be used sparingly and only when necessary" if only to cover FIAT's own backside when it fails.

 

[DaveMcT]

Everything is built to a price. We can bet the designers wanted stronger motor windings but were beat down by the bean counters.

There's an old myth (or maybe not a myth) that the Rover Metro was to have a nice low bonnet line but at the last minute no-one would pay to redesign the tall air intake which sat above the already tall engine. So they had to redisgn the front body.

Sounds daft but I've seen similar stuff in big industry.

 

[Nickmitbm]

Yeah mate , of course.Cost is a very important issue.But do you believe that any car industry would put a feature in their cars that destroys em???Except for the case of FIAT having suicidal thoughts I don't think so..

 

[T14086]

I had been told by 3 FIAT techs this was the case and by a number of other trusted meechanics.

But when you think about it it is logical that it would 'help' destroy the motor quicker. In the factory fitted columns the components were the run of mill cheap components which are ok for taking the power but not for long intervals.

When you use the CITY button it supplies more power to the PAS so when you leave this on or use it often it delivers a load that the standard components can not handle.

This was confirmed by FIAT as a known issue and by the technicians at the recon centre as they have advised only to use the CITY button if absolutely necessary even with their more durable components.

The actual motor failing is a minor fault, the vast majority of issues are with the torque sensors...please inform your mechanic friends of this.

p.s. My CITY button has been on for over 5 years.

Everything is built to a price. We can bet the designers wanted stronger motor windings but were beat down by the bean counters.

Again motor failure is not the most common cause.

 

[dave]

p.s. My CITY button has been on for over 5 years.

you girl

 

[T14086]

you girl

thats because its the wifes car