General Checks by auction houses?

[stevehg]

I have the evo channel subscribed on YouTube, and while wasting some time last night I noticed they were live broadcasting the RM Sotherbys auction. I'd seen a few of these cars in an earlier video, so I watched it for a while. After a few maseratis , Jaguars and ferraris had gone under the hammer I was surprised to see a 1965 Fiat 500...

The intro was that it had been restored in Paris and had a mobile phone controlled modern stereo hidden from view, so nothing seemingly special, yet it sold for £16,000 plus fees, so about £18,300.

http://www.rmsothebys.com/lf15/london/lots/1965-fiat-500/1076753

So out of interest I looked at the website, and reading through the text it was nothing special, but maybe there was a few people buying on a whim, and if you are there to buy a £500,000+ classic sports car, they probably haven't done their research on Fiat 500 prices. However, what I did notice is that the VIN is for a 1971 500, and it has the later 500L dash and cover, which would match the Vin. Sad I know, but in my defence, mine was manufactured in Dec 1970, hence me knowing it was a later one.

So clearly not a 1965 Fiat 500 as advertised. Could be a clerical error, but unlikely on something significant as vehicle age, so you can only assume that RM didn't do basic checks.

I'm not suggesting anything untoward by anyone one in the selling chain, but it obviously does pay to do your research when buying a classic, even from a top auction house.

cheers, Steve

 

[the hobbler]

you're right, the ignition switch and door handles would indicate an early 500, but the dash is 500L--I know because my car is a '71 500L--somebody has been a naughty boy!

 

[Toshi 975]

Is that not a 500L front panel along with the dash and steering wheel. Seems that you only get a cheap plastic fuel filter and the wrong filler cap but hey what do you expect for that price

 

[Vitesse]

Nice colour though!!!!! I am guessing the picnic basket must add about £5k to the price. I'll have to get one and bump my insurance agreed value up.

 

[fiat500]

:
I like all the comments.
To be fair though, it does look nicely restored and the door handles point the right way.
I think it has been done-up by someone with a good eye for detail and a knowledge of original presentation. Just a pity they didn't go the whole hog with the interior.
Strange interior photography; they have chosen to show "artistic" images with selective focus points instead of crisp shots that show the exact condition at a glance.
Don't tell Murphio, but if I could be guaranteed that price for him, I would trade him in and buy a mini fleet of lesser models. Is Luigi safe Tony?
BRA_7962 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr

 

[stevehg]

To be fair though, it does look nicely restored and the door handles point the right way.
I think it has been done-up by someone with a good eye for detail and a knowledge of original presentation. Just a pity they didn't go the whole hog with the interior.

Totally agree, I wasn't intending to be derogatory, just given the price I assumed there be more to it than a nicely restored LHD 500.

Although, they did miss fitting the engine lid seal and the rubber surrounds for the bumper mounts (on nice new paint too), and they could have fitted the rear bumper on straight.

Don't tell Murphio, but if I could be guaranteed that price for him, I would trade him in and buy a mini fleet of lesser models. Is Luigi safe Tony?
BRA_7962 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr

I'm starting to get an itch to work on another, as I enjoy doing the re-building work more. Two problems, since moving into the city I barely had enough room to do the 500, so anything bigger is out. Secondly, I don't have the spare funds to start another. So to free up space and the capital, the 500 would have to go first. Decisions, decisions.

cheers, Steve

 

[fiat500]

..I totally agree with you Steve... the price was mad

Not meaning to be sexist, but I'm sure that some wealthy businesswoman, who was actually shopping for a Lamborghini or a Maserati bought the 500 on a whim for her boyfriend, just to keep her him sweet,

The restoration is strangely addictive. I swore "Never again", after the 500. I'm, not short of outdoor storage and it's hard to control my rustlust. Here I am with a basket case 500 and 900e to face.:bang::bang:

 

[Vitesse]

:
I like all the comments.
To be fair though, it does look nicely restored and the door handles point the right way.
I think it has been done-up by someone with a good eye for detail and a knowledge of original presentation. Just a pity they didn't go the whole hog with the interior.
Strange interior photography; they have chosen to show "artistic" images with selective focus points instead of crisp shots that show the exact condition at a glance.
Don't tell Murphio, but if I could be guaranteed that price for him, I would trade him in and buy a mini fleet of lesser models. Is Luigi safe Tony?

Yes Luigi is safe for now Peter, in fact he is in bits in the garage under going surgery at the moment.

Funny you should mention the restoration because when I read threads like this, first off my eyes immediately go to door gaps and bonnet fit. Both of with are really good. But the creases in the door cards would do my OCD head in, frayed carpets, steering wheel looks like it could do with a clean. The knob is missing off the Jack!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Also it's got white indicator lens, I mean who in their right mind would fit those?

I need to go and lie down!!!!

 

[Damon500]

Yes Luigi is safe for now Peter, in fact he is in bits in the garage under going surgery at the moment.

Funny you should mention the restoration because when I read threads like this, first off my eyes immediately go to door gaps and bonnet fit. Both of with are really good. But the creases in the door cards would do my OCD head in, frayed carpets, steering wheel looks like it could do with a clean. The knob is missing off the Jack!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Also it's got white indicator lens, I mean who in their right mind would fit those?

I need to go and lie down!!!!

Well I must admit this has my OCD aroused too- the interior trim, door handles and window winders appear to be 500F with a 500L dash, gutter trims, front panel and steering wheel...?


Then it is also missing the sill trims and over rider bars as well- must be a French 'specialist edition'


The white indicators are in fact one of the few things that actually seem correct! Definitely not a 1965 F but on the other hand not the full L either?


I'm glad I didn't try to make my Giardiniera restoration 'original' if this is the market price for a 'bitsa' these days...

 

[fiat500]

Whilst we're all having fun with micro-analysis of this (lovely) hybrid car, I am sure that most of us are not such purists as to object to such mods being carried out. Some of us will have applied some of the features to our own cars.
But the key point that Steve is tactfully avoiding saying is that this car has been intentionally misdescribed by someone and if that had been done in any other area of retail, the buyer would have grounds to seek redress on the situation.
I don't know enough about the terms of sale of major auction-houses to say whether or not the car will have been offered for sale subject to the buyer making their own checks on authenticity. But if they can apply such a twist in the description of a humble Fiat 500 _ (insert your own suffix!), who knows what happens with the sorts of rare exotica that you would normally expect at auction.

 

[werdna]

I trust the chicken was paid the going rate for an eggstra !

 

[the hobbler]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if more than 'a bit of nautiness' goes on--there are more 'genuine' Lotus 11 and Ferrari 250SWB on the road than were ever built by their respective factories! And that is just 2 cars that comes immediately to mind

 

[fiat500]

I trust the chicken was paid the going rate for an eggstra !

The hens were a great help all the time little Murphio was laid up and have lots of walk-on parts in photos of the restoration.. They were great company when I was stripping him to a shell.
I am sure the car was a little cross during the time he was cooped-up whilst the hens had free-range. The yolk was on the hens though, as he proved less attractive a meal to the local badgers.:yum::yum::yum:
Restoring Murphio was not eggsactly over-easy but everything eventually went sunny-side-up.
.

 

[the hobbler]

those puns were eggscruciating Peter

 

[fiat500]

those puns were eggscruciating Peter

I can't diseggree with you Tom.

 

[the hobbler]

I think we should end this, before somebody cries fowl!

 

[fiat500]

You're right, I'll hend it here.

To get back on subject, there is another Fiat up on an auction on the 20th. Maybe someone got their lines crossed. This one would really be worth that money on rarity alone.
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/classic/rare-fiat-500-auction
It looks maybe a little undervalued in the light of the preceding.

 

[FIAT126]

You're right, I'll hend it here.

To get back on subject, there is another Fiat up on an auction on the 20th. Maybe someone got their lines crossed. This one would really be worth that money on rarity alone.
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/classic/rare-fiat-500-auction
It looks maybe a little undervalued in the light of the preceding.

I think that Steyr in the last link went up for sale a year ago, but it hasn`t met the reserve price.
Here is a bit more eggsplained about it.
http://www.exchangeandmart.co.uk/cl...-rare-steyr-puch-500-fails-to-sell-at-auction

 

[fiat500]

Got it....Sept 2014:bang:

..and I would definitely have let it go at £40,000 and No, I don't think it's really worth that. Lovely car though.

 

[Vitesse]

Got it....Sept 2014:bang:

..and I would definitely have let it go at £40,000 and No, I don't think it's really worth that. Lovely car though.

I would have been eggstatic with £40k!!!!!!!

Oh no you got me going now.:bang: