Technical Bigger Battery in 500

[fiat500]

A little incident last night made me aware just how small the capacity of the battery is. Coupled with the poor output of the dynamo, you can end up with only a marginal buffer of Amperage to get started or out of a tricky situation. I know the alternator would help and I'm on the way with that project, but has anyone got any thoughts on or actually been able to fit a bigger battery or an additional one in parallel?
With my Mk. 2 500 I'm thinking it can't be all that hard to extend the battery bay rearwards to fit something more chunky?

 

[MATTSDAD]

Hi Peter,

with a dynamo charging system I would think carefully about fitting a second battery. The issue with Dynamos is that they are limited to how much current they can deliver. If you have two batteries that are both low and the dynamo is trying to charge both and you have lights on etc then it could draw more current than the dynamo is capable of delivering. If the Dynamo control box is a 3 relay Current/ voltage control box then the current overload will kick in, BUT if your control box is the simpler 2 relay voltage control box then the Dynamo will be overloaded and will overheat. Also the wiring may not be up to it.
I don't know which type of battery you have installed but go for one with the highest AH (Amp Hour) rating possible, CCA (Cold Cranking Amperage) is not an issue with the little engine in a Fiat.
I have a Bosch Type 063 battery in my MGB which is rated at 60AH and I don't have any issues about keeping it's charge although this is fed off a Type 18ACR Alternator not a Dynamo.
There are 70AH batteries available but they may draw too high a charging current for the Dynamo.
Richard

 

[fiat500]

That's very useful but unexpected information Richard. So I'm probably up a blind alley with that idea. I have used 063 batteries on all sorts of vehicles and with a slight mod. I think I could make one fit very nicely on my next restoration.
The control box is the three bobbin type. It's agood job too as my problem yestreday will have been when I took the dynamo to its limits; a good job the output gets arrested at a certain point.

 

[the hobbler]

Peter, for a variety of reasons (including the regulator being wired up incorrectly by an 'expert') I had to fit a new battery to my 500. There is an Exide Excel 45AH battery fits quite neatly into the Fiat battery tray, albeit slightly taller, and at 45AH is a bit more powerful--it really cranks my tuned 650 engine over. Unfortunately, I only have the 'Euro car-parts' part number, but if you want me to, I will try and get the actual Exide number off the battery for you.

 

[fiat500]

I only have the 'Euro car-parts' part number, but if you want me to, I will try and get the actual Exide number off the battery for you.

I should have followed you up on that one Tom.
I am now convinced that the battery that I bought three years ago, an 038, was smaller than it should have been and possibly more appropriate to a lawn-mower.
Looking at a helpful website:
https://www.puretyre.co.uk/car-battery-specification-chart/
I can see that they recommend an 049 for a 500 or an 077 for a 126. Obviously the latter car must have a bigger compartment for the battery. I'm going to measure up in the morning but 35Ah is not enough for these cold mornings in Scotland.

 

[Vitesse]

I should have followed you up on that one Tom.
I am now convinced that the battery that I bought three years ago, an 038, was smaller than it should have been and possibly more appropriate to a lawn-mower.
Looking at a helpful website:
https://www.puretyre.co.uk/car-battery-specification-chart/
I can see that they recommend an 049 for a 500 or an 077 for a 126. Obviously the latter car must have a bigger compartment for the battery. I'm going to measure up in the morning but 35Ah is not enough for these cold mornings in Scotland.

I bought mine a couple of years ago from Ricambio and it is a Varta 45ah L210 x W135 x H200. Obviously like a lot of things they are a little pricey but I am pretty sure this is the same one.

https://www.tayna.co.uk/Type-049H-Varta-Black-Dynamic-Car-Battery-P3122.html

 

[Vitesse]

Oh just noticed someone on that site in the reviews say they fitted it to a 1972 Fiat 500, so it must be the right one.

 

[fiat500]

Oh just noticed someone on that site in the reviews say they fitted it to a 1972 Fiat 500, so it must be the right one.

That's the one
Poor Murf, managing all this time with just his one Weetabix.
He has only started to struggle a bit since the battery overcharging issues which my have fried it.
Finally I think I've got to the bottom of all the niggles we've had for about six weeks....like a bad cold he couldn't shake off; just as I am about to perform heart surgery on him.
I hope that purist Sean doesn't notice.

 

[the hobbler]

Apologies Peter for not answering quicker, but I have been on 'grandfather duties' today so only just gone through my e-mails , and the Forum. I will look at my battery tomorrow (it is out of the car at the moment as my'wee beastie' is about to go to the bodyshop to have the front spring fitted in the correct alignment) and let you know the precise model.

 

[jjacob]

Probably different battery nomenclature in Europe, but in North America the correct battery size is a 51R. These have lots of power!
John

 

[the hobbler]

Morning Peter;
Dug the battery out---it is an Exide 45amp battery---"Excell EB455". The dimensions of the battery are:- 237mm (width), 127mm (depth), 227mm (height, including towers). This battery is a bit taller than the original spec. battery, so you will have to do a little bit of fettling to the clamping bar and rods with regard to the clamping in place. Make sure that there is no metal-to-metal contact between the cross bar and the positive terminal. This battery also has the towers at the back of the battery, as per original spec. I have an Alternator on my engine (652cc 126), and so far, the battery has proved more than adequate.

 

[fiat500]

Thanks Tom. I now know that both yours and Tony's batteries are similar specs and about 30% more powerful than mine. So with a bigger engine on the way I will have to buy one.
I gave up trying to make the repro battery restraining bar work...(too light a gauge and too close to the battery terminals), so I have it fitted crossways and it's actually more secure.

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

Greetings, I too have been looking for a little more oomph from the old battery and have found that the 057 type is the correct size for the 500 battery tray and if you search for "YUASA" HSB057 you can get a 12v 48Ah 430A item that will certainly spin the motor - pricey though!!!!

Ian.

 

[fiat500]

the 057 type is the correct size for the 500 battery tray

Ian.

Oh no.....not another option.
Looking at the specification sheet I have, there are a variety of options based on the sizes that I now think fit:

Type Dimensions mm Ah
038 239 133 206 35 My own
043 237 127 227 45 Tom's
049 220 135 225 45 Recommended
057 238 129 227 45 Ian's
Tony's battery code seems to be a Ricambio secret.
The cold-cranking amps rating varies from 265 to 380 ...or 430 if you get the best specified one.
I can't personally vouch for other than that the first one definitely fits (avoid it) but I think we can be certain that any of them will be OK.
So I will be shopping around tomorrow.

 

[fiat500]

I've gone with Ian Bleeding Knuckles for an 057. Not the super-expensive Silver battery but a heavy-duty version nonetheless. Apparently as fitted to all Morgans, so a good pedigree.
Not available from my local suppliers other than the extortionate Halfords.
So I searched, as you do, and for me in Scotland, this company was the best all-round price and delivers free....even up here
So they deserve a mention.
https://carbatteries-online.co.uk/

 

[Vitesse]

I've gone with Ian Bleeding Knuckles for an 057. Not the super-expensive Silver battery but a heavy-duty version nonetheless. Apparently as fitted to all Morgans, so a good pedigree.
Not available from my local suppliers other than the extortionate Halfords.
So I searched, as you do, and for me in Scotland, this company was the best all-round price and delivers free....even up here
So they deserve a mention.
https://carbatteries-online.co.uk/

Just had a look did you go for £50 one or £55? Pretty reasonable price, it should wake Murf up in the mornings with a kick! I like the handle because its always a bugger trying to get the battery out of its hiding place.

 

[fiat500]

For an extra fiver, the few extra cold-cranking Amps and the slight extra capacity seemed worthwhile. I think I may have gone from one extreme to another but as I will be trying out a massive 650-twin quite soon, I suppose it will be useful.
I read up on this on a Polish website which had loads of strategies to deal with cold-start problems. So despite the relatively tropical nature of Scotland compared with central Europe, especially at the moment, I think it is wise to have over-capacity.

 

[fiat500]

The bigger battery arrived although thankfully, it's not much bigger in the physical sense.
MAL_7643 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr
It came ready-charged and no leaks sustained during delivery.
It was just above freezing today and I have had to pre-charge my previous battery to get the engine started on days like this...but no longer a problem....
[ame]https://youtu.be/Qp1GNm8BTU0[/ame]

 

[fiat500]

Ironically, when I was minded to look at this again Paulo66 I realise that I probably didn't need a new battery at all, but actually needed a new engine.
But this battery definitely does the job cranking the engine well and I heartily recommend the supplier....really quick and well packaged...even to remotest Scotland.

https://carbatteries-online.co.uk/

 

[Pete145]

This is a really interesting thread. My car usually "goes" on the 4th pull. In addition I've noticed that when the lights, wipers AND indicators are going the wipers slow down and the indicators blink with less vigour. I've been pondering a battery switch and this thread has helped a lot!