Appologises To Tom

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Appologises To Tom

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Anglowelsh

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Tom,

I appologise for my earlier comments I was out of order...
I realise that you were trying to help save me time and money, I was just frustrated with this problem...and trying to describe it without someone actually hearing it is very difficult..
It isn't just a case of a worn engine, if it was that I would accept it, but the car is seriouly under powered and the rattle is limited to one cylinder only..
So rather than waste time and money stripping down the engine, I would sooner put a complete lump in it..I have located several engines c/w with manifolds etc for around £400 with mileage of between 26k-50k..
As I previously mentioned the car only cost £800 and has been well maintained, despite this engine problem,it has only had two owners with the first one owning it for most of its life, and the service history goes up to 72K..
I also run a 2000 (W) 1.6 Trofeo Brava, and as you can imagine have been comparing the two performance and engine wise...I am aware that the 1.8 is a harsher run engine but this engine is not the norm..
With regards try before you buy..It was an ebay auction buy, and when I went to collect it the clutch was slipping big time...so the seller agreed to fit a new clutch and deliver it down to me...and since this rattle is mainly when the engine is under load I never picked up on it until the car was delivered with a new clutch, which incidently cost her over £250...so all in all I don't think I've done that bad on the deal even if it is gonna cost me £400-£500 on top, after all these cars are still fetching around £1500 + in nice condition..
So let me finish by once again appologise for my attitude, and assure you that it won't happen again, and hope that this won't deter you from trying to help me in the future..

Cheers Anglowelsh
 
Re: Re: Appologises To Tom

I live near Cardiff
 
Re: Re: Re: Appologises To Tom

Bit of s treck then, if you were down sarf I'd say bring it over so I could stick my head in it.

Are you sure you cannot make a recording of it? Piston slap has a REALLY distinctive sound and does not sound like a rattle. As you said it sounds like a diesel I still think you have a worn big end or some issue with a valve. A worn big end is a £50 fix if the crank is still OK.

Does it do it from cold or only when warm?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Appologises To Tom

Thats the really strange thing Tom, The noise is there when cold, which kinda threw me..as I suspected big end,
looking at the cam lobes they are fine...
 
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Is it a tap-tap-tap or a tinkle-tinkle-tinkle and does it get worse on acceleration?
 
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To be honest mate it's very difficult to describe, it is more noticable and definatly worse when you first pull away and when you change gear or reving the engine..
If you hold it on a constant rpm it goes, but will then come back on initial acceleration.
It does sound like a big end rattle, but on saying that it is very high up the chamber almost at cam height.
The emissions are good, so that really rules out a broken ring as the compression should be good.
The trouble is this sort of sound could be any number of things, from a loose inlet valve guide to big end/worn crank..
This is why I was gonna get a second hand engine, Fiat Factory Parts in Manchester have quoted me £345 delivered although can't guarrantee the mileage but says its under 40K..That comes complete apart from the Starter,Alternator & Steering Pump
With regards is it a rattle or a tinkle more of a rattle but also very much like a engine with no air filter.
Also the sound appears to be loudest around No4 cylinder right over the inlet cam near the breather hose.
Clutching at straws but could it be a camshaft bearing cap ?? another possibility I was gonna explore was loose spark plug??
I suppose I could always strip it once I fit a 2nd hand lump in her..then at least I'd get know exactly what it is...Several mechanics have listen to it and are all stumped, and each one has given a different possible problem..
If it was a big end I can't understand why it is the same noise when cold as when hot, also I though big end rumbles are more louder on a constant speed around 2000 - 2500 rpm..
One thing I did notice was it vibrates back up through the pedals slightly...
How can I record it for you to listen on the net ????
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Appologises To Tom

Yup, compression and leakdown tests would show shot rings and shot valves.

As it does it from cold its probably not a jammed hydraulc tappet plus you'd get a missfire.

Shot valve guides would result in serious oil loss. If you take the oil cap off when its running does air blow out?

One possibility is a hydraulic tappet has failed totally. What you'd hear is the tappet slamming into the valve as its no-longer supported by the oil. Its always worth a check! Does mean cam out though. Still its not head off yet.

Big ends, unless they are truly ****ed, tend to make more noise hot and under acceleration.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Appologises To Tom

With no traces of smoke from the engine, I would say that the oil consumption wasn't high..

Surely if it was a big end, then you wouldn't have much power loss...just the rattle...

Like I said though having a 1.6 and a 1.2 I am comparing them...and the 1.6 pisses all over this 1.8 especially on acceleration.

Where abouts are you anyway Tom...
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Appologises To Tom

Hampsire.

With the loss of performance you are right, its very unlikely to be big end. If it was a ring/piston skirt issue I'd expect oil to be blowing out of every hole in the engine.

£10 says its collapsed tappet.
 
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Tom..

I hope you are right, but if its a collapsed tappet wouldn't this rattle be constant as it appears to die down on a constant rpm and much more noticable pulling away under load and reving the car????

I will get to the bottom of this, but time is a factor as I need to run the car daily for car, so its a weekend project maybe next weekend..

All garages wanna do is strip the bloody thing down and charge me a fortune in the process, the fiat mechanic said he wouldn't even bother with the top and and is convinced it was the piston skirt slapping the bore..surely though one would expect the piston to break and find traces in the oil???
 
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Yup, I'd expect to find metal in the oil and if it was a wobbly piston you'd also expect massive blowby and oil everywhere.

Combustion pressures change with load so I would not epxect any rattle to be constant.

I put 5k on a car with a broken ring, no rattle, just slightly excessive oil useage.

I'd take the cam cover off and turn the engine by hand (take plugs out obviously) and check each tappet in turn. Thats assuming you can get your fingers at them without taking the cams out.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Appologises To Tom

Tom...

This is a real long shot, but I don't suppose it could be non mechanical and actually be the air valve stuck open, thus the engine drawing full bore induction everytime regardless of engine speed??
Which could explain the throaty rattle, and yes I am clutching at straws..
Not that it probably is but I will try and pull the inlet pipe off the air box and check that this valve is not fully open with the engine cold and non running
 
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It would rev its nuts off if it was stuck open, sorry.

Get messy, for the sake of a few hours and maybe a few £ its worth checking its not something silly like a tappet.
 
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Your quite right mate..I'm just a lazy bastard...
The reason I mention the air valve was because tonight coming home on the motorway, I thought i'd give it some welly..and pulled a ton at under 5000..and the engine was not clanking its tits off...if anything it was less noticable ?????
Oh well I will start with the tappets and take it from there..
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Appologises To Tom

The best bit about cars, getting oily!

Just having a think in the bath, if you have an inlet valve thats not openning fully you will get induction noise due to the increased airspeed in the ports and loss of power due to not getting enough air in the cyl.

Its a hope.
 
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Am I right in thinkingthat the inlet cam, can be timed independantly to the ECU??
Or was I dreaming that last night
 
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Barchetta only, the 1.8 bravo is fixed.
 
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Well that counts that theory out then..damn...

have you ever heard of Fiat Factory Parts in Manchester 01612026666 or 07967094113???
He is offering me a 1.8 complete delivered for £345..but can't guarantee the mileage on it, but stated that it would have been under 40K
 
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Thats not bad money, complete engine with head etc?

Still have a look at the tappets.
 

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