General Anti-roll bars

[ruinin]

I own Panda 1.2 and recently read and article in a magazine that said Panda 1.1 doies not, unlike 1.2 , have anti-roll bars so its body rolls quit a lot. Firstly, I have never found any anti-roll bar under the hood of my Panda, am I blind? Secondly, I have driven both 1.1 and 1.2 and noticed no difference between them as for body roll. But maybe I didn't drive the rented 1.1 hard enouch through bends. Is it possible someone removed the anti-roll bars from my panda? Kidding, but seriously, how do I know I have them there and where do I find them and do they really make the body roll different from 1.1?

 

[trackdayqueen]

Panda's only have a front ARB. There is no rear ARB.

To see if it has one or not, put the steering lock on say full left, then look unde r the offside front wheel from behind. If an ARB is present you ought to be able to see a bar that runs transversely (about 15mm in size) across the car. It will be attached to the lower suspension arm.

It is incredibly unlikely that someone would remove the front ARB from your car.

 

[ruinin]

Panda's only have a front ARB. There is no rear ARB.

To see if it has one or not, put the steering lock on say full left, then look unde r the offside front wheel from behind. If an ARB is present you ought to be able to see a bar that runs transversely (about 15mm in size) across the car. It will be attached to the lower suspension arm.

It is incredibly unlikely that someone would remove the front ARB from your car.

thank you, i will have a look, do you think it will really make the handling different from a car without ARB?

and what are those huge anti roll bars that you buy in special tuning shops and are above the engine? do they replace the stock ARB that are below?

 

[306maxi]

thank you, i will have a look, do you think it will really make the handling different from a car without ARB?

and what are those huge anti roll bars that you buy in special tuning shops and are above the engine? do they replace the stock ARB that are below?

That's not an Anti-rollbar, that's a strut brace.

I very much doubt that the 1.2's have an ARB and the 1.1's don't.

The silver thing running front left to right is the anti-roll bar.

Please note that this is not a Panda so it's not going to look exactly like that....

 

[Pandemonium]

thank you, i will have a look, do you think it will really make the handling different from a car without ARB?

and what are those huge anti roll bars that you buy in special tuning shops and are above the engine? do they replace the stock ARB that are below?

Those are called strut braces and they go in the engine bay. They connect between the 2 suspension tops and stop the cars front end flexing under hard cornering.

I am pretty sure my Active has some sort of anti roll bar because it corners like lightning with no roll.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Sisters 2004 Active has one, as did the 2005 Panda I got a front sub frame off of.

 

[trackdayqueen]

I am pretty sure my Active has some sort of anti roll bar because it corners like lightning with no roll.

LOL! Are you having a laugh? Why don't you have a look? My MJ had a front ARB and it practically rolled over with any enthusiastic cornering, way too much body roll.

To the OP: Strut braces are pretty much decorative on a Panda. Look how close the top suspension mounts are to the bulkhead, they effectively will be pretty stiff anyway so I can't see a strut brace making any worthwhile difference.

 

[306maxi]

LOL! Are you having a laugh? Why don't you have a look? My MJ had a front ARB and it practically rolled over with any enthusiastic cornering, way too much body roll.

Some people have never experienced a car that handles well or has very little bodyroll. Always makes me laugh when people talk about cars like the Panda and 500 and say that they're

A Fast
or
B Handle well

 

[trackdayqueen]

Some people have never experienced a car that handles well or has very little bodyroll. Always makes me laugh when people talk about cars like the Panda and 500 and say that they're

A Fast
or
B Handle well

Well, quite! Guess that must be the case here then. Still if they don't know what makes a good handling or fast car then it's all good really as at least they are not aware of what they are missing out on.

 

[306maxi]

Well, quite! Guess that must be the case here then. Still if they don't know what makes a good handling or fast car then it's all good really as at least they are not aware of what they are missing out on.

Rather!

Anyway I've attached a picture which shows the various suspension components on my 500's suspension and steering. The panda will be more or less the same. I've labelled the various components.

1 Rack end
2 Anti-Roll bar
3 Tie rod end
4 Droplink

 

[Geddes]

I am pretty sure my Active has some sort of anti roll bar because it corners like lightning with no roll.

I guess mine doesn't 'cos it rolls like a trawler.

 

[ruinin]

Well, quite! Guess that must be the case here then. Still if they don't know what makes a good handling or fast car then it's all good really as at least they are not aware of what they are missing out on.

this is quite confusing to me

- Panda's (not 100 HP)is notoriously well known for its wild body roll, yet it gets positive reviews on handling / I have never understood that / see whatcar.co.uk / but at the same time, although it has quite a lot of body roll, it seems to go through sharp bends with some cheeky confidence, not like you feel you are losing it any time soon

I have driven cars like 2006 Audi A4 and no matter what you say, it definitely does not feel better through sharp corners than my Panda 1.2,and I doubt that objectively it is faster in apex - plus I think they compared Panda 1.2 with Maserati Quattroporte and found out that the apex speed in mid fast corners of both cars were the same / now talk about handling, I am not trying to make a point, just being confused about what it is that is important about handling

and just as a side note / to drive the cheeky 1.2 through twisty roads is fun like hell, probably combination of narrow tires, body roll but overall neutral - not too oversteer or understeer, it just swings through like fun

 

[306maxi]

this is quite confusing to me

- Panda's (not 100 HP)is notoriously well known for its wild body roll, yet it gets positive reviews on handling / I have never understood that / see whatcar.co.uk / but at the same time, although it has quite a lot of body roll, it seems to go through sharp bends with some cheeky confidence, not like you feel you are losing it any time soon

I have driven cars like 2006 Audi A4 and no matter what you say, it definitely does not feel better through sharp corners than my Panda 1.2,and I doubt that objectively it is faster in apex - plus I think they compared Panda 1.2 with Maserati Quattroporte and found out that the apex speed in mid fast corners of both cars were the same / now talk about handling, I am not trying to make a point, just being confused about what it is that is important about handling

and just as a side note / to drive the cheeky 1.2 through twisty roads is fun like hell, probably combination of narrow tires, body roll but overall neutral - not too oversteer or understeer, it just swings through like fun

I think you're missing the point, if having no bodyroll was the definition of good handling you'd just put solid springs in. Won't handle well though.

 

[trackdayqueen]

Agreed that body roll is pretty bad on a non 100hp panda.

Handling is about balance and feel. The Panda is a safe handling car that veers towards understeer. The chassis can be fun but IMO is fairly crude. The lack of a rear ARB doesn't help here as this can exacerbate the issues around understeer. It's not a car you can steer on the throttle, generally because the rear end doesn't really come into play. I would expect Fiat engineers veer towards this due to the fairly short wheelbase.

It can certainly be fun, though it's not the best chassis in it's class. An Audi A4 is a bit of a barge really. Having had the opportunity to drive some very nicely balanced cars ( 1997 Formula Renault, Elise S1, S2, MR2 MK3, Integra Type-R, E46 M3, Caterham Superlight + countless others + race cars) I feel I have something to compare it to. Okay I had a MJ for 9 months which I admit probably suffers from terminal understeer more than a lighter 1.1/1.2. I wouldn't say the MJ was anything amazing handling wise. Sure I could punt it along at a fair pace and keep up with most things around a corner through sheer determination, but it was hardly a joy to drive balance wise.

The 100hp is better, though suffers from a lack of rear end action, a lack of feel in the steering (all pandas suffer this), a propensity to lift a front inside wheel on low speed corners (ie under 40mph), which makes it difficult to invoke lift off oversteer to turn the nose in (unless you hit it right on the sweet spot) and also to get good traction to pull you out of a corner. Higher speeds are better though due to poor damping on the rear the car can tend to oscillate which isn't exactly confidence inspiring on higher speed longer corners.

 

[Murano16v]

My old 1.2 2004 Panda rolled a fair bit but always felt safe and could be pushed harder into bends than my 500 which feels like it might actually fall over especially combined with it's hopping/skipping feature which the Panda never used to do, and dare I mention it, the Panda was also quicker.
I'm beginning to think that the 500 is all about the shiny dashboard.

 

[trackdayqueen]

I'm beginning to think that the 500 is all about the shiny dashboard.

Did you ever think it was about anything else?

 

[Pandemonium]

Well just like loads of car forums I have been on before I have had enough of this place because of arrogant people. I have had plenty of good handling cars before and the Panda handles well END OF. For a start the wheels are pushed out to all 4 corners so that helps. The skinny little high tyres on the Active also help it in corners. I can send the Panda into a corner at 30 and it will just stick brilliantly. My old Ford Probe wouldnt because it was so much heavier and the nose would just dive and understeer. That was despite the fact that it was lowered and had better tyres.

This is the trouble with people on the internet they just dont have any manners. They just want to bully and pick on every single comment. I think the fault isnt with the Panda I think its with the crap drivers behind the wheel. Maybe one of these days I will find a site that isnt full of stuck up bullies.

 

[trackdayqueen]

Well just like loads of car forums I have been on before I have had enough of this place because of arrogant people. I have had plenty of good handling cars before and the Panda handles well END OF. For a start the wheels are pushed out to all 4 corners so that helps. The skinny little high tyres on the Active also help it in corners. I can send the Panda into a corner at 30 and it will just stick brilliantly. My old Ford Probe wouldnt because it was so much heavier and the nose would just dive and understeer. That was despite the fact that it was lowered and had better tyres.

This is the trouble with people on the internet they just dont have any manners. They just want to bully and pick on every single comment. I think the fault isnt with the Panda I think its with the crap drivers behind the wheel. Maybe one of these days I will find a site that isnt full of stuck up bullies.

Do we need to get one of these out:

I mean, come on, who is bullying you? Just because there are flaws in your arguments, no need to go crying off and say people are bullying you when quite clearly they aren't.

Is it more that you have an issue with being challenged?

Nowhere has anyone said the Panda is a bad handling car.

I think the trouble is you go on and say the Panda corners like 'lightning'. I mean what can that possibly mean? Then you say it doesn't roll, when clearly it does. So others point out that your are wrong and you call that bullying? The panda handles okay, nothing wrong with it, but it's all relative really and most likely down to your previous experience which may or may not be limited.

 

[306maxi]

Well just like loads of car forums I have been on before I have had enough of this place because of arrogant people. I have had plenty of good handling cars before and the Panda handles well END OF. For a start the wheels are pushed out to all 4 corners so that helps. The skinny little high tyres on the Active also help it in corners. I can send the Panda into a corner at 30 and it will just stick brilliantly. My old Ford Probe wouldnt because it was so much heavier and the nose would just dive and understeer. That was despite the fact that it was lowered and had better tyres.

This is the trouble with people on the internet they just dont have any manners. They just want to bully and pick on every single comment. I think the fault isnt with the Panda I think its with the crap drivers behind the wheel. Maybe one of these days I will find a site that isnt full of stuck up bullies.

Dude, this is a forum. On the internet people debate things and exchange opinions and facts to prove their point. You can't simply turn up and say "The Panda handles well", have loads of people disagree with your and then cry bully (Are you 7 or something? )

You think the Panda has very little roll, others disagree with you, get over it!

 

[Geddes]

I'm beginning to think that the 500 is all about the shiny dashboard.

'Course it is. It's a Panda for hair dressers