General 3rd gear syncro

[voorhas]

Well, after about 50K miles and 12 years, it gave up on us. I now have a very disappointed girlfriend and a grinding Panda. i'm still looking at the possibility to have it fixed (somebody suggested it could be a misaligned gear linkage, which I seriously doubt) but if it involves getting the box out, I'll probably have to look at 2nd hand items because I can hardly see a gbox repair being a cost effective choice. So what I'm asking from you ppl is a bit of advice regarding which gearboxes might physically fit the 770 cc Fire engine. I know the gearing will probably be too tall for the engine, but right now we're mainly focused on getting the car on the road, as she just got her driving license and needs all the practice she can get. And please don't tell me to just teach her how to do double declutch gearchanges...

Thanks in advance.

Goncalo D.

 

[John H]

Regarding another gearbox to fit the 770cc - AFAIK virtually any Panda gearbox should fit it, but the final drive ratio (diff.) is different.

The synchro on third on the my CLX is shot too.

The best way I've found of keeping the noise down is to offer the level towards third slowly - take maybe a second or so, rather than just shove.

Consider it all part of the planning ahead and not rushing everything..

My younger daughter is also learning (yes Paul, still learning - she enjoyed doing handbrake turns in the snow a few weeks ago[8D]) and has become quite adapt at gearchanges which don't crunch.

 

[voorhas]

Thanks for the advice, but the problem is the gbox is way past that phase... it will crunch no matter how slow you do the changes, especially after a long run (hotter gbox oil?). The weird thing is it wasn't a very gradual process... she never liked to be rushed and if your timing was wrong, she would crunch... but it wasn't problematic, really. Then, on one day it just started to crunch!

Scrapped Pandas are quite rare over here... would a Uno 1000 or 1100 Fire gearbox fit? I'm assuming it will since its an engine of the same family, but I'd like to be sure before I actually go out and spend the money. Maybe I should bring the engine too, just to be on the safe side...

Goncalo D.

 

[voorhas]

Oh, and good luck for your daughter! You seem like a very patient person, which is definitely a plus for both of you.

And learning to drive on a Panda must be a real experience! Unlike those sedate, electronic packed, power assisted cars of today, the Panda really lets you know whats going on and teaches you how to deal with it. I'd definitely recommend a small, old school car to anyone thats taking his/hers first steps.

Goncalo D.

 

[John H]

Originally posted by voorhas

Scrapped Pandas are quite rare over here... would a Uno 1000 or 1100 Fire gearbox fit? I'm assuming it will since its an engine of the same family, but I'd like to be sure before I actually go out and spend the money. Maybe I should bring the engine too, just to be on the safe side...

I'm reasonably sure the basic gearbox from a UNO would fit in the space.

But, I'd worry about mounting bracket location, and driveshaft fitting and length appropriate for other gearboxes.
I understand there is more than one driveshaft type on a Panda.

Also, later gearboxes have a different remote selector mechanism which intrudes into the car.

It would probably have to a fairly early UNO - you may even find the fitting to the old 903cc engine is the same.

Ideally you want definite "yes" from someone who has done the swap though.
I haven't.

 

[Enzo]

<font face="Book Antiqua"></font id="Book Antiqua">Hello...I don't agree with scrapyards shopping, especially for parts that need a long time to be fitted as engine/gearbox!Why don't you open your one and replace ALL the syncros?I know it's an hard work, but I think you'll got tired of the Pandas before it will stop again

Passion has neither brands nor models!

La passione non ha nè marche nè modelli!

 

[John H]

Originally posted by Enzo
<font face="Book Antiqua"></font id="Book Antiqua">Hello...I don't agree with scrapyards shopping, especially for parts that need a long time to be fitted as engine/gearbox!Why don't you open your one and replace ALL the syncros?I know it's an hard work, but I think you'll got tired of the Pandas before it will stop again

I think "hard work" is the wrong expression.

It's over 20 years since I <s>played</s> took a gearbox to bits, and replaced the bearings, and synchro cones.

It wasn't worth the effort because there were other problems which I hadn't appreciated until it was all back in the car.
I put the original gearbox back in (the Morris 1000 we still have) and it's still going 100,000 miles on.

It needs experience, and some skill too, to sort gearboxes.


I'd say if you can get a 'box from an UK MOT failed car (rusted out) there's fighting chance you'll be OK.

The situation in Italy may well be different, where you have less rust, better availability of cheaper parts and labour.
Presumably a scrapyard car there is truly past it, and may contain worn out parts.

All the above IMHO, YMMV...


John H

 

[voorhas]

Well, I do appreciate your suggestions, but opening up the gearbox and fiddling around with its internals is way beyond my limited mechanical knowledge. I do understand where you're coming from when you suggest it and I'm sure it would be perfect for someone who actually knows what do do with the thing but as stated above, unfortunately thats not my case.

Update on the Panda: we drained the old gearbox oil and replaced it with some thicker stuff (don't ask my what it is, I got it from a mechanic who also made the suggestion to try this approach) and the gearchange its actually much smoother. We still get an occasional grind out of 3rd gear (once or twice on a journey) but its much easier to live with. Now lets see how long will it last...

Goncalo D.