Technical 1993 Panda 1000 fire - new to me with some problems

[Almiscarado]

Hi There!

I am the happy owner of a 93 Fiat Panda 1.0 fire, only have it for 2 days and 70km It has 100K on the clock, but the engine looks healthy..

Although it is in aparent good shape, there some things to fix and repair:

1st: Driver's window does not like to shut itself (while turning the handle, it seems to miss some tooths). I already removed the handle, but the problem is inside the mechanism... Is there any repair possible or do I need to get a new one?
(I can close the window if I help it with my hand on the glass)

2nd: There is some rust on both sides on the seams above the front wheel... nothing very ugly, but will try to delay it with some rust-converter...

3rd: This is the hardest one - idle is very erratic. Engine starts well, and drives fine but idle both when cold or hot is eratic, climbing and dropping but never stalling.
I can drive perfectly, but I am wondering if this will reflect badly on mpg and/or will get worse and start giving me problems.

Since this engine has a webber single injection, what can be wrong with it? I have been reading similar threads with the idea of checking things, first the simple and cost-less, and then the harder and more expensive.

. Things I checked: all connections with the injection and the temp senders and lambda senser.
.When cold I ear the stepper engine when my gf turns the key on. Could not see any movement, but I assume it moves something inside the carb, right?
.When dark, there are several really tiny spark from the HT leads to the engine metal. Is this normal? With new ones should this go away?
.How can I check the manifold tem sender? If I remove the cable from the sender, and engine stabilizes idle that should be the culprit? Does the engine work with that cable off?

Lots of questions, but any help would be precious to a new Fiat owner that likes to fix he's own things...

Sergio

 

[Almiscarado]

oh, and I also checked throttle cable slack and done a icu reset (with hot engine took negative cable for 10 minutes, then re-conected and watched the fan kick in twice). Not sure if this process is acceptable for the Marelli/Weber ICU...

(and sorry for the not so good english, it is not my native language...)

 

[VmanC]

Hi There!

I am the happy owner of a 93 Fiat Panda 1.0 fire, only have it for 2 days and 70km It has 100K on the clock, but the engine looks healthy..

Although it is in aparent good shape, there some things to fix and repair:

1st: Driver's window does not like to shut itself (while turning the handle, it seems to miss some tooths). I already removed the handle, but the problem is inside the mechanism... Is there any repair possible or do I need to get a new one?
(I can close the window if I help it with my hand on the glass)

2nd: There is some rust on both sides on the seams above the front wheel... nothing very ugly, but will try to delay it with some rust-converter...

3rd: This is the hardest one - idle is very erratic. Engine starts well, and drives fine but idle both when cold or hot is eratic, climbing and dropping but never stalling.
I can drive perfectly, but I am wondering if this will reflect badly on mpg and/or will get worse and start giving me problems.

Since this engine has a webber single injection, what can be wrong with it? I have been reading similar threads with the idea of checking things, first the simple and cost-less, and then the harder and more expensive.

. Things I checked: all connections with the injection and the temp senders and lambda senser.
.When cold I ear the stepper engine when my gf turns the key on. Could not see any movement, but I assume it moves something inside the carb, right?
.When dark, there are several really tiny spark from the HT leads to the engine metal. Is this normal? With new ones should this go away?
.How can I check the manifold tem sender? If I remove the cable from the sender, and engine stabilizes idle that should be the culprit? Does the engine work with that cable off?

Lots of questions, but any help would be precious to a new Fiat owner that likes to fix he's own things...

Sergio

Hi Sergio, welcome to the forum .

Your window winding mechanism will need to be replaced, I would think that some of the teeth have worn down on the gear. If you can gain access to the teeth they can be restored by building them back up with weld but not sure how accessable they are.

The plug leads should not be sparking at all so you need a new set, this will stop the sparking and may also fix your erratic idle. If after changing the plug leads you still have an erratic idle I would try fitting a new temp sensor, they are only about 15 euros (not sure what currency you have).

Good luck with it!

 

[Almiscarado]

I have just changed the sparkplug leads for some new ones of 'FAE' brand. Not sure if they are good, but they costed me 24 euros.
Looking forward to later see if I get any improvement, either in fast/erratic idle problems or sparks leaks...

At least this was an easy work.. it is pleasant to work with the lots of space this engine/car gives to you

Best,

Sergio

 

[Almiscarado]

Hi there!

The good stuff: no more sparkplug lead leaks!

The bad stuff: still got the same high idle problem... what to do next?

 

[VmanC]

Hi there!

The good stuff: no more sparkplug lead leaks!

The bad stuff: still got the same high idle problem... what to do next?

I'd replace the temp sensor next.

 

[Almiscarado]

Is there any way to 'emulate' the sensor with a resistor so that I can know for sure before I go out and buy one?

 

[Almiscarado]

I have been testing some stuff:

The blue temp sensor:

- rock cold temp measures: 4.42 ohm
- hot engine: 0.24 ohm

I believe these are normal values so It must be working well..

I removed the stepper motor, degreased it, and while it was out tested it to see if he moved:

-> when I turned on the ignition key, it made aparently no movement
-> when I disconected the ignition key, it came out quite a bit, and returned inside.

This test was made with a cold engine.

->> Now I am wondering, is this the normal behavior? Do I have a bad stepper and that explains my high idle?
My idle isn't always high, if I let the 'idle idle', it will settle slower, but if I blip the throttle it will go up again and take ages to slow down.

Any help on this subject would be vastly helpfull....

 

[Almiscarado]

Hi there,

still struggling with this problem, I just remembered one thing:

When I turn on the key, I see no movement on the throttle. This and the fact that I have high idle, can it be related to someone previously having turned the throttle stop up?
If so, how can I screw it down? Can seem to figure out what kind of key takes to screw it down...

Should I leave it like it is and try to clean the throttle position potentiometer first?

Oh boy... this ain't easy

 

[VmanC]

There's a lot to be said for the older simpler cars isn't there

This problem is normally caused by either the temp or lambda sensor, if you feel after testing the temp sensor it's ok then I would be looking at the lambda sensor next.

Having the emmissions checked could help with deciding about the lambda sensor, if the co shows to be too high it points the finger at the lambda sensor rather than any throttle settings.

 

[Almiscarado]

Hmm didnt have much time today to test anything, but I disconected the Lambda sensor and started the engine (cold). Everything worked 'fine' with no change in behavior (same high idle) and there were no error light on the dashboard..
I also tested the resistance of the lambda heater cables (aprox 4k ohm), and those sounded normal, and then the lambda voltage on my multimeter were jumping around 1.1 - 1.4Volts... the engine was cold and was running only for 5 minutes since I cannot let it on a lot on my garage...

Another test made: the Throttle position sensor -> it should be a simple potentiometer, but is it supposed to start at 1.5k ohm and get higher as you push the throttle?

Best,

Sergio