General 1.4 T-jet

[vamosk]

Hi,
I have a 2008 1.4 T-Jet Punto with 220,000 km on it. Despite proper care, the timing belt broke while parked. The cylinder head was rebuilt for 1000 euros, but now the engine makes an ugly, rattling noise above 1500-2000 RPM. During the head repair, the hydraulic lifters, valves, oil, and timing belt (Conti) were replaced. I took it back to the mechanic, and they said they had to manually tighten the timing belt, which supposedly fixed the noise. However, when I drove the car home, nothing changed; the noise is still there, although you need to listen closely with the windows up in 40°C weather.

Since then, I've taken it to a smaller local garage and a larger, reputable service center. Both said the noise is coming from the lower part of the engine block, with one suggesting it might be a rod bearing or crankshaft bearing starting to fail. Neither service center is willing to take on the job, telling me to take it back to the place where the cylinder head was repaired. There are no error codes, and in 1500 km, neither oil nor coolant has been lost. Obviously, since I found out it might be a serious issue, I haven’t revved the engine at all and have stopped driving it altogether. I'm taking it back to the original mechanic next week. What should I expect? Could it be the crankshaft or a potential engine replacement? Maybe a faulty oil pump? Any helpful advice is appreciated! Thanks.

 

[AnthonyH]

The mechanic who did the job needs to fix this.

I don't think a 2008 car with 220,000 km on the clock has much commercial value so if you can't get it fixed you should get a new car

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The mechanic who did the job needs to fix this.

I don't think a 2008 car with 220,000 km on the clock has much commercial value so if you can't get it fixed you should get a new car

I'd say this perfectly illustrates the problems you may encounter when a cam belt breaks - or valves and pistons get "friendly" for whatever reason. When you discouver that simply fitting a new belt doesn't result in the problem being "sorted". The next step is usually to take the head off when probably it'll immediately be apparent that valves are damaged. Unfortunately guides and valve seats may also have problems so the cost of repair can be considerable. Often sourcing a used head is a cheaper option than repairing the old one. However what many people don't think about is that, basically, the pistons, small ends and big ends have been subjected to forces way beyond anything they were designed to cope with when they smashed the, very solid and incompressible, metal valves into the equally unforgiving metal of the head. Damage to pistons, rings, small ends and big ends and even bent con rods are all possibilities. Of course the only thing you can examine when the head is removed is the top of the pistons where you will likely see witness marks where the valves and pistons came together. You might also see if damage has been done to the edge of the piston which might affect the top ring, but you can't see any of the other stuff because it's hidden under the piston. Dismantling the bottom end of the engine really isn't financially viable unless you're doing the job yourself so it's a judgement call as to how much other damage the engine may have suffered.

Thankfully you'll often get away with it but, every now and again, you'll get one where some serious damage was done. We always warned customers of this possibility when a job like this was taken on and included a wee disclaimer on the worksheet which the customer had to sign saying they had been appraised of the possibility.

So, I think it's reasonable to take it back to the mechanic who did the head and for it to be checked over to make sure his work on the head is not at fault. I'm less sure whether it's fair to try to pursue him for damage to the likes of big ends etc. He/she was perhaps naive not to appraised you of the possibilities, but is that good reason for them to be held responsible? probably not?

 

[vamosk]

update:
I took it back to the mechanic a week ago, and he said he would fix the car. They removed the oil pan and the bearings, didn’t find any issues, installed a new bearing set, but the noise is still there. From what he said, I gathered that they don't know what the problem is. What should I expect, really? If the engine has been rebuilt both from the bottom and the top, what else could be wrong?

 

[AnthonyH]

You should drive it until it breaks down. Then buy another car. Chasing engine problems is difficult and on a car of this age and mileage just not worth your time.

 

[vamosk]

You should drive it until it breaks down. Then buy another car. Chasing engine problems is difficult and on a car of this age and mileage just not worth your time.

A used engine would have only been worth it at the very beginning. If the mechanic had informed me that even after spending 1000 euros it might still be faulty, I wouldn’t have invested in it. From this point on, it’s his responsibility, no matter how he resolves it. For me, it’s just the waiting that’s inconvenient.

 

[iamfabss]

Maybe also a lifter is damaged but if repair has been done correctly...you shouldn't have any major issues.

 

[GrandePunto PL]

You should drive it until it breaks down. Then buy another car. Chasing engine problems is difficult and on a car of this age and mileage just not worth your time.

Wrong. Cheap old car has educational value. How do you gain DIY experience? On new, complicated car or simple Fiat (especially FIRE family engines)?

As for the topic/thread, all "mechanics" involved are very incompetent. They should do different jobs (cashier at Tesco or something like that, at best).

 

[iamfabss]

Wrong. Cheap old car has educational value. How do you gain DIY experience? On new, complicated car or simple Fiat (especially FIRE family engines)?

As for the topic/thread, all "mechanics" involved are very incompetent. They should do different jobs (cashier at Tesco or something like that, at best).

Agree.

 

[electric73]

What's the condition of your turbine?