Hi all

We're doing a business project for college, a survey is part of our research! Can you take some time to answer 20 questions?

The survey is in regards to our business plan for a product that detects washed diesel. Washed diesel is a huge problem over here in Ireland... If our potential product went commercial it has the potential to be a big success

Big thank you!

what survey?

dave said:

what survey?

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Arse I forgot the link! :doh: Thanks for pointing that one out

Linky

done survey now wtf is washed diesel, red/green with die removed?

Survey's done.

Good luck with your product.

dave said:

done survey now wtf is washed diesel, red/green with die removed?

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Washed diesel is getting agricultural green diesel (or red diesel in the UK), removing the dye and selling it as white road diesel. The results can be catastrophic to a modern diesel engine eg failed injector pumps, ruined dpf, sensor failures etc.

It's not just the dye that is removed, but some of the natural lubricants of diesel are also removed, increasing wear and tear on some main components.

Every day here you hear of stations being closed down due to selling washed fuel, customs out dipping diesel cars etc. Very very widespread.

Heres a perfect example: Agri stuff on the left, normal road diesel on the right, washed crap in the middle



This is taken from boards.ie where this sample of diesel was taken from a car that suffered 4 failed fuel injectors after refuelling!

dave said:

red/green with die removed?

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Yes.

Sulphuric acid is used to remove the dye. This leaves high levels of sulphur in the diesel, this is how washed diesel is usually detected.

Sulphur in diesel is good for the engine(lubrication) but bad for the environment(CATs and DPFs don't work properly) so refineries remove it. Then suppliers, ESSO, BP etc. add their own mix of additives that increase the lubricating properties.

Bio-Diesel has excellent lubricating properties and is one of the reasons Bio-Diesel is now added to all diesel sold here in the UK. Dino-Diesel sold in the UK contains between 5% and 10% Bio-Diesel.

Shadeyman said:

Yes.

Sulphuric acid is used to remove the dye. This leaves high levels of sulphur in the diesel, this is how washed diesel is usually detected.

Sulphur in diesel is good for the engine(lubrication) but bad for the environment(CATs and DPFs don't work properly) so refineries remove it. Then suppliers, ESSO, BP etc. add their own mix of additives that increase the lubricating properties.

Bio-Diesel has excellent lubricating properties and is one of the reasons Bio-Diesel is now added to all diesel sold here in the UK. Dino-Diesel sold in the UK contains between 5% and 10% Bio-Diesel.

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Spot on something is telling me that sulphur levels in diesel are very very low here (50ppm, must check it out) washed stuff can have anything between 200 - 1200 ppm of sulphur. This is how its detected both from the fuel and from the tail pipe.

Some other methods are not so obvious, there was a gang caught using kitty litter to wash the dye out

Linky

so when a car goes past smelling of rotten eggs, is it running on washed diesel?

the EU laws on Diesel allow a sulphur level of 10mg/Kg of fuel so considerably higher than 50ppm hence why burnt diesel has such a high sulphur dioxide output compared to petrol cars (which is also far more harmful to the environment than a bit of CO2 we all seem so obsessed with

dave said:

so when a car goes past smelling of rotten eggs, is it running on washed diesel?

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this used to be a side effect of poor quality fuels in early catalytic converter turning sulphur dioxide into hydrogen sulphide

Why would people fill up at dodgy fuel stations and risk using 'washed' fuel

Why not just fill up at a proper place

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Why would people fill up at dodgy fuel stations and risk using 'washed' fuel

Why not just fill up at a proper place

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See here

Irish Times said:

Mr Blevings said washed diesel was previously only sold through unbranded filling stations but now it was being sold through branded outlets. There were even suggestions that criminal networks were setting up filling stations to sell this fuel. The penalties did not frighten offenders.

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The nearest station to me got closed down recently, selling laundered fuel...

It's happened to us a few times, we get diesel from any "reputable" station (panel van) and on many occasions from a reputable outlet we got poor performance...

The picture of the 3 diesel samples is from my garage. The stuff in the middle is what came out of the fuel filter after the van took ages to start and ran very lumpy

This has always been more of a problem in the island of Ireland than it has been this side of the wet stuff, however, there have been fairly numerous examples of members of the Travelling "Comunity" using it on the mainland. Much of the early use of washed diesel was as a result of the stuff being smuggled across the border from south to north.

Perhaps the reason it's never been as much of a problem over here is that (I think) we have more large chains of major fuel retailers than in Ireland. But I might be wrong on that score. The invention may be more interesting to haulage companies than private motorists and the authorities.

Some of this was as a result of EU subsidies but much was moved by various terrorist groups, mainly, but not exclusively, Republican. Smuggling of all types was, and often still is, a means for these groups to raise funds to buy weapons and explosives. However, since "peace" broke out after Good Friday they are still at it which perhaps shows that a sizeable chunk of proceeds from fuel, alcohol, animal and drug smuggling has always been hived off for personal use.

Oops, off topic. Sorry about that.

What about kerosene?
Lot's of people used to run their cars on that.

A little info and advice from our greener than green pals, at "Friends of the Earth"(PDF attached).

i remember about 10 years ago my parents were driving a mk5 escort diesel, and in newcastle there was a place selling washed diesel from ireland, 50p a litre and my god, the place was jam packed all day every day,