Hello
first time here writing.
Ducato 2,3 120 Multijet, 2008. 91000 K.
OBD tels that EGR valve is open, but as this is vacum operated it might
be the solenoid valve.
Question: how does the valve function. Normal closed or normal open.
My valve is open whenever connect 12 vdc direct or not.
Is that correct ?
Thanks beforehand.
Riis

Welcome to the forum Riis
Whether the EGR valve is normally open or closed depends on how you drive it.
Basically the EGR valve makes the engine eat its own sh*t. It feeds exhaust gas in at times only when the engine can cope with it - when its hot and at high revs. Whitevanman can do half a million miles without ever hearing of the EGR valve problem because the way he drives keeps the EGR valve opening and closing regularly to keep it clear. Wheras old duffer in motorhome pottering about with a cold engine rarely causes the EGR valve to open so it gets clogged up. When old duffer finally goes over about 2000 revs for the EGR valve to open its so clogged it jams open, and old duffer thinks he has blown his engine by over revving it
You can get a blanking plate off ebay for about £5 which will cure the EGR valve problem, but it might bring on the emissions warning light which is an MOT fail.
Or you can keep the EGR valve clear by driving like whitevanman, but then that defeats the object of reducing emissions ....

Thanks for quick reply, but I think i have expressed my self unclear.
NO or NC means where the plunger is in the solenoid when the valve is complete dismounted.

If the plunger is the "swimming" type, it will normally set to one side (close or open) when under full voltage, 12 volt.

I have tried to ad 12 vdc to the coil, but the function of the valve is that is still open.

My EGR valve is clean, and as far i can see it works.
Regards Riis

Any chiptuner can delete the EGR out of the ECU, result: a much healthier and cleaner ( inside) engine...!!

Hi.
2,3 JTD 130 hp x250


I measured after a solenoid and before a EGR valve the vacuum pressure, using 2000 rpm and full throttle, vacuum pressure was 500 mmHg (0,66 bar). Valve is open I think.

Using full gas or heavy acceleration line is without vacuum pressure.


Driving downhill using in fifth gear 2000rpm
but not gas at all vacuum pressure is 250 mmHg (0,33bar)


Who knows better how it works?

Riis said:

Hello
first time here writing.
Ducato 2,3 120 Multijet, 2008. 91000 K.
OBD tels that EGR valve is open, but as this is vacum operated it might
be the solenoid valve.
Question: how does the valve function. Normal closed or normal open.
My valve is open whenever connect 12 vdc direct or not.
Is that correct ?
Thanks beforehand.
Riis

Click to expand...

NC

The EGR is closed by a spring and is opened by the vacuum supplied from the electrovalve that is fitted just below the centre of the scuttle, this is often soaked by the dreaded water ingress and can seize.


Mike

Hello again and thanks for all answers.
The recomendation from Peter Pick-Up will probably be my choice.
Then I will never have problems again.

The other sulution could be just buy a new valve, and find out how it works.
And see that my valve is ok, so it might be some els.

Anyway, thank you for cooperation.
Riis

Riis said:

Hello again and thanks for all answers.
The recomendation from Peter Pick-Up will probably be my choice.
Then I will never have problems again.

The other sulution could be just buy a new valve, and find out how it works.
And see that my valve is ok, so it might be some els.

Anyway, thank you for cooperation.
Riis

Click to expand...

Peter Pick-Up as usual forgets to mention that his favorite solution is illegal. I'd expect better from a moderator. In addtion to the basic car laws, it may also invalidte your insurance. You have to tell the insurance company of any modifications, but you can't tell them you have done a modification thats aginst the law. Your vehicle will also be causing more NOx pollution. Passing the annual emissions test does NOT mean it's OK.
To answer the original question the valve is normally closed (by a spring). You should be able to do basic checks of thr valve and electrovalve with a hand vacuum pump and gauge. Availbale from motor parts dealer and ebay. Mityvac is one trade name. their website has tutorials on doing checks.

Robert G8RPI.

fit a blanking plate and get rid of the thing

I *haven't* blocked the vacuum tube leading to the EGR valve with a grubscrew but this is easily reversible if necessary.

I've therefore found it difficult to be over-righteous about the VW shenanigans

The EGR circuit was installed to make the vehicle compliant with EU regulations. When new, the solenoid valve, vacuum valve and throttle valve work in unison to keep emission levels low without sacrificing engine performance.

7 Years and 91000 K. later, the chances that it still works that way are slim. Most solenoid valves leak, the vacuum valves are stuck and the throttle valve mechanism is badly corroded.
Fiat didn't invest much in the quality of these parts because they are not essential, but the good news is that there is no feedback to the ECU and the vehicle will pass the annual emission test.
The drawback of all this is that over the years, when the EGR started to fail, it made a real oil and carbon mess in the intake manifold, reducing engine performance and increasing fuel consumption.

In my van I have plugged the output port of the solenoid valve and removed the vacuum hose to the EGR valve after forcing it closed with compressed air. I also cleaned the intake manifold after removing the throttle valve. The latter I took apart and chemically cleaned the return spring and the chamber it resides in.
As a result, the fuel consumption on long trips dropped from 10.2 to 9.1 liter/100 km. That is not bad for a 3 tons vehicle. It may well be that in some countries what I did is considered illegal (probably not here), but less consumption means less pollution, so I don't think I did something wrong.

g8rpi said:

it may also invalidte your insurance.

Click to expand...

It takes more than that to invalidate your insurance. Even if you lie on the application form they still have to cover you third party. Think how it would be if an insurance could get out of paying claims on such a vehicle technicality - where would they draw the line? Refusal to pay because of a chipped windscreen... a cracked tail light?
Are you seriously suggesting an Insurance Company could claim that the sort of exhaust emissions still emmitted by slightly older vehicles caused an accident so they aren't going to pay?
Are they going to invalidate the insurance on VW vehicles

CDK said:

The EGR circuit was installed to make the vehicle compliant with EU regulations. When new, the solenoid valve, vacuum valve and throttle valve work in unison to keep emission levels low without sacrificing engine performance.

Click to expand...

Are you saying that putting exhaust smoke into the engine instead of fresh air doesn't sacrifice engine performance ?

PS: I am not saying that we shouldn't have EGR valves. If they are working OK they reduce pollution so leave them alone. But if they are continually jamming, which actually increases pollution, then the least worst option may be to by pass them as suggested.
In any case lets be honest about it. Lets not try to pretend that feeding the engine with its own sh*t instead of fresh air doesn't reduce its efficiency.

Thanks to CDK. I got the answer. The valve is normally closed (NC).
Now i know that my valve is out of order.
Buying a new one (done) and have the tuning people to change the ECU in such
a way that the EGR is closed with rev's above 1200-1300 RPM.

But i am wondering if it's possible to fit a resistor instead of the valve ?
I think I will try it when I know the ohm-value on the new valve.

Thank you
Riis

g8rpi said:

Peter Pick-Up as usual forgets to mention that his favorite solution is illegal. I'd expect better from a moderator. In addtion to the basic car laws, it may also invalidte your insurance. You have to tell the insurance company of any modifications, but you can't tell them you have done a modification thats aginst the law. Your vehicle will also be causing more NOx pollution. Passing the annual emissions test does NOT mean it's OK.

Robert G8RPI.

Click to expand...

I get so tired an annoyed to read this bull**** everytime from just one member.
Mr. Gaiterpi, we all know you're a saint, just don't shout it out very time here, please......!!!
:yuck:

And go tell VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda etc. what's illegal...

Peter James said:

It takes more than that to invalidate your insurance. Even if you lie on the application form they still have to cover you third party. Think how it would be if an insurance could get out of paying claims on such a vehicle technicality - where would they draw the line? Refusal to pay because of a chipped windscreen... a cracked tail light?
Are you seriously suggesting an Insurance Company could claim that the sort of exhaust emissions still emmitted by slightly older vehicles caused an accident so they aren't going to pay?
Are they going to invalidate the insurance on VW vehicles

Click to expand...

We are not talking faults here, or even the emission levels, but deliberate modifications that are not declared to the insurer. It's called fraud. Most, if not all insurers will cancel a policy if thet find out. Normally this will be pot accident, but could be as a result of a roadside check by the police or VOSA. some insurance companies will look for any excuse to refuse a claim, technicalities are all they need. Just putting a GTI badge on a standard car counts as a modification "because it makes it more attractive to a thief". Ford had this problem with a detuned XR3i that the insurers rated the same as the hot one, and the earlier Orion Ghia Injection was cheaper to insure but quicker (top speed, less drag due to boot) than the contempary XR3i .
See http://www.civiclife.net/board/topic/143423-modifications-not-declared/ for some firsthand accounts and horror stories. Yes insurance assesors DO check for ECM re-maps. You are NOT covered for third party losses, but their is the MIB who may pay a third parties loss, but you will still get a conviction for being uninsured. Unfortunatly most divers won't find out until it's too late, and the judge is not going to accept "Peter/Fred/Joe/Mary on the Fiat/Ford/Civic forum said it was OK" as an excuse .

Robert G8RPI.

Again, you're the only saint among a bunch of sinners...
And as sinners, we're not interested in your legal/ilegal comments...so join in, or leave and join Greenpeace or something...

:devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:

nice one