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Technical OVERHEATING ! Fan ! Thermo ! Head Gasket !

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Technical OVERHEATING ! Fan ! Thermo ! Head Gasket !

Penelope Pitstop Spain

Penelope Pitstop Spain

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May 10, 2012
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Hello fellow Bee'er's !

I took my Yellow (re sprayed Giallo Orion Mic 3ct or Lambo Yellow !) Bee down the coast from Malaga to Gib on Friday to meet up (and of course "show off" the Bee) with friends.

However !!!! I got to Gib and into Gib, no problemo. But when I joined the three hour queue to get out....I boiled over. Not me, my Bee.

Once she cooled down, I was able to add (well, refill) her...and limp her back to a carpark...and take an unforeseen stop over on The Rock.

The next morning I was able to take her home. (going through the border was a case of turning her on and off....and taking big leaps in the queue !)
On this super hot day...and driving carefully, her temp never climbed above the midway mark. (only when I stopped at the toll stations did she rise).

Today I took off my nail varnish and opened her up. There to my horror, I noticed that her dual fan was catching on a wire. When I climbed underneath I noticed that the wire was from her dual fan !!!!
So I refitted it. Then I ran her up to temp again....expecting to see (and hear) her fans kick in......

....but no. She climbed without anything cooling her down. So I shut her off before she "blew her top" again.

My question is therefore "multi fold"....

She overheated (steaming) but then with careful driving (without the fans) I could get her home....so I was using the air passing through her, to cool her (?)

Putting the "wire" back on to the fans, she still overheated (the fans did not come on)....and I noticed "bubbles" in the expansion tank (and water coming out of the lower tank hose).

Therefore....would you guys say "it is the fans (dual) not kicking in that caused the overheating....AND that bubbles in the expansion tank are because you topped her up (well refilled her, as she spat her dummy out...and all her coolant) when she first overheated (in Gib).

And if that is the case, how do I check the fans....and bleed the cooling system OR am I looking at a "Head Gasket" issue....regardless of the fans...and the "refill".

By the way....she has dual fans, air con and abs.

Yours

Kim X
 
Sorry to hear about the problems on your trip to Gibralta.

Ok seeing as no one else has replied upto now.... some things to look at.

Which wire was the fan catching on? Was it the one in between the fans? I think this goes to a resistor that controls the operation of the A/C fan. Undu the 2 screws that hold it in place and check the resistor. (there are 2 different types but they can fail.

I am no expert but first thing I would do from your description. would be to replace the lower hose if it leaking. (this may have been the cause of the problem)?

If your fans are not working check all the fuses. both small ones in the main fuse box and the larger maxi fuses under the bonnet, etc. Sorry I don't have access to a wireing manual at the moment.

Also I'm sure the B has a temp sensor that turns the fan on and off??
Grounding the wire that goes to this should turn on the fan?

Depending on where it's located a failed thermostat could stop this turning on the fans. But due to normal cooling when driving I would not suspect this to be the problem.

Bubbles in the header tank are not a good sign.... If they continue. Possible HGF. You can buy kits that sample the coolant to check for HGF.

Fix the leak. check fuses, check for voltage at the fans, work back to see where it fails... relays, etc. Hope it's not the head gasket....

If you are unable to find gasket sets locally I may have a spare... Hope it does not come to that.

Regards

Wayne
 
Hello Wayne.... in Bah'rain.

By the way, I use to work out of DXB .....so we were once fairly local.

Getting to the wire problem (and I have all my fingers crossed it is not the HG) it does run through the middle of the the dual fan housing.
I got underneath and realised it was not clipped in (it was catching on one of the fans...which wasn't turning) and I clipped it back, Whether I have done that correctly, I do not know.

Is that the only electric clip that should be there ? Or is there on above also ?

I checked the fuse in the hood (marked with a fan symbol) but not the inside fuses.....if there is one in there I will have to find out. I am not sure.

My thing is (and it is not as hot as where you are....but can get "hot" indeed) if I had no fans and the air was cooling the engine, when I slowed at the toll booths there would have been no air....hence the rise. Would have the fans cooled the engine temp to "mid way" and normal....or is it the HG ?

Or after the "overheat" did I refill the system incorrectly (as in I just poured coolant in asap).

I am hoping it is not the HG ....and have to get a test kit to check.

And thanks for your reply. I was getting worried no one could help.

Kim X
 
Penelope Pitstop Spain said:
Or after the "overheat" did I refill the system incorrectly (as in I just poured coolant in asap).

I am hoping it is not the HG ....and have to get a test kit to check.

And thanks for your reply. I was getting worried no one could help.

Kim X
Click to expand...


I think you should better have a mechanic looked after it.
 
Are you thinking that this could sounds serious ?

The wires on the inside of the dual fan (engine compartment side) look "shot".

I don't mind fixing that on my own, .....but not the HG !

My Volvo V70's thermo stuck (open) and it was an easy fix.
(The thermo is on the top....and the part isn't expensive).
But the B's thermo looks a tad hard to get at.

I am trying to get to the "root cause" before I have the mechanic spend hours working out what it actually is....only to replace everything (inc labour) then have everything fail....and then pay again to do the HG.

Kim
 
Just one question...open to all, but looking at twin fan B owners, what temp does the fans (first and then second) kick in at ?

Kim
 
Remove the temp sensor plug, that's the one in the thermostat - that will start the fans right away regardless of the temperature, just make sure ignition is on. If they wont't start, then it's propably the fan fuse or the fan resistor.
Pm me your email, I'll send you the service manual pdf, you'll find the locations and wiring diagrams there, even the temp graphs.
 
PM sent

The "Kimmy" email address is the correct one.

I was so eager to get hold of the pdf that I started to put my work email address....with my private mail provider !

And many thanks in advance

Kim
 
I wonder if heat wrap tape over exhaust manifold will lower temp in engine bay. heat in engine bay could cause melted wires, connecors and bad measures from sensors. as i dont have heat shield, cold air intake hose is realy hot on touch and it bend fan holders.
 
Hi,

Sorry to jump in but i got lost in this website, im trying to see where i can post my question and ask for help but i still cant find the right place.

i see that you have overheating problems. i do too but mine are a bit different and guessing more severe:)

i bought my 2002 1.8 Silver Barchetta in March 2012, the first thing i did is change one of the radiator hoses as it was slit open and the car was over heating.

a month later then the weather got hotter (by the way in live in UAE), the car started overheating again, at that time a mechanic recommended that i change the expansion tank cap which i did but nothing changed, it kept overheating.

i once got stuck in traffic and the temp gauge hit the red, when i went back to the mechanic he recommended we open the radiator to check for blockage, to our surprise, half of the radiator was blocked.

after getting this fixed and all channels opened, we noticed that the water level in the expansion tank is going up and down which suggested a failed HG, i got that replaced together with the timing belt (i was told that if a Fiat overheats, its better to change the timing belt).

now everything is in order but the little thing keeps overheating. the temp gauge is going up to three quarters, and the fan is working properly (when the temp goes above half closer to three quarters, the cooling fan starts working but the temp doesnt go down much) it almost always stays at the three quarter mark and sometimes tries to go a tiny bit more.

i keep checking the water level in the expansion tank and its not jumping or boiling or getting any lesser.

any ideas? i know that the thermostat is removed from the car (dont know when and why) but this is how i got it.

could that be it? or something else is wrong?

please help, i really love this car and i really want to use it (never had the change to enjoy it since purchased:()

thanks in advance and sorry again for jumping on your blog Kim;)
 
Youzbaki said:
any ideas? i know that the thermostat is removed from the car (dont know when and why) but this is how i got it.

could that be it? or something else is wrong?
Click to expand...

Hi Youzbaki, I'm no expert on the B's cooling system, but I'd take a wild guess that this might have something to do with it!
 
Welcome to the forum Youzbaki.

Removing the thermostat from cars / boats seems common practice in the middle east !! seems to be a myth that it cures overheating :cry:

I do not know if a lower temp one is available

I owned a Barchetta in Bahrain for many years and although it did at times suffer from overheating. when running corectly it will cope with the August heat.

Some things to try:

1. download the service manual

2. I assume your car has a/c and dual fans? Do both fans run?
there is a resistor mounted between the fans. this was what was
causing my problems...

3. Do you have a locally made copper radiator? If yes get rid of it....
I suffered with an overheating problem on one of my other cars for
years. Finally I ordered a all aluminium rad from the uk and it made a
huge difference.

4. Drain the coolant and use distilled water and "water wetter" ie: red line
or anti heat brand.

5. I thought my fans used to kick in earlier.... one may have run all
the time?? Or at least a few seconds after start up. Not sure if this is
normal? maybe temp switch problems??

Judt a thought.... May or may not help.... Just speaking of my experience owning the car here in Bahrain.
 
have you replaced the water pump?
make sure it's pumping. You can check it by taking the return hose off and make sure water is coming out when the engine is running.
 
Hey guys,

Thanks a lot for taking the time to answer me.
desert rat: i will take your advice and change the water ( im currently using the green coolant stuff) but i think the radiator could very much be it. (although i think its the original one that came with the car).

I checked the water pump and the fans and they all seem fine.

Strangly enough, the little thing is running like a clock, but i guess this is because the weather is getting colder here in UAE, but i will still change the radiator, you can never be ready enough for the middle east summer:D

Thanks again guys
 
desert rat said:
Welcome to the forum Youzbaki.

Removing the thermostat from cars / boats seems common practice in the middle east !! seems to be a myth that it cures overheating :cry:

I do not know if a lower temp one is available

I owned a Barchetta in Bahrain for many years and although it did at times suffer from overheating. when running corectly it will cope with the August heat.

Some things to try:

1. download the service manual

2. I assume your car has a/c and dual fans? Do both fans run?
there is a resistor mounted between the fans. this was what was
causing my problems...

3. Do you have a locally made copper radiator? If yes get rid of it....
I suffered with an overheating problem on one of my other cars for
years. Finally I ordered a all aluminium rad from the uk and it made a
huge difference.

4. Drain the coolant and use distilled water and "water wetter" ie: red line
or anti heat brand.

5. I thought my fans used to kick in earlier.... one may have run all
the time?? Or at least a few seconds after start up. Not sure if this is
normal? maybe temp switch problems??

Judt a thought.... May or may not help.... Just speaking of my experience owning the car here in Bahrain.
Click to expand...
Had head gasket, thermostat, temp switch and water bottle replaced. after driving about 30 km I stopped and checked water reservoir / bottle. Found foam and bubbling in water reservoir / bottle, can see a little water has leaked out water reservoir / bottle cap. Any suggestions as to what the cause could be ?
 
OverheatingPalio said:
Had head gasket, thermostat, temp switch and water bottle replaced. after driving about 30 km I stopped and checked water reservoir / bottle. Found foam and bubbling in water reservoir / bottle, can see a little water has leaked out water reservoir / bottle cap. Any suggestions as to what the cause could be ?
Click to expand...

Does the fan run?

Is the water pump ok?
 
Garage confirmed that water pump and fan function ok.

I replaced water (reservoir / bottle) cap on day 3 of collecting car from garage, now water has stopped leaking out of water (reservoir / bottle) cap. Water level is now between min and max mark, temp gauge is now closer to the 1/4 than the 1/2 mark when driving or idling in traffic.
 
Last edited:
When starting car in morning (engine cold), the car stutters in 1st gear (almost as if idling is out) for the first 2 km, thereafter once engine is warm stuttering disappears.
Water level when getting to work is 1cm below min mark, before returning home I add a glass water, water level at min mark. When arriving home water level is still at min mark. Next morning before going to work water level at 1cm below min mark.

Is the cause of stuttering when engine is cold due to thermostat stuck open ?
What could be the cause of 1cm loss of water overnight ?
 
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